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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Mmr and links to austim

417 replies

Michelle38wales · 03/11/2018 12:37

Do you think there’s a link with mmr and austim, I’ve already 3 children with austim so not sure about my baby having it

OP posts:
Bibijayne · 03/11/2018 19:48

@grabbit is surely a troll.

supersop60 · 03/11/2018 19:49

Firstly - there is no correlation between MMR and autism.
My DC were tiny when the whole scare erupted, and many of my friends decided to not have the vaccine.
My DP and I calculated the odds and we decided that the risk of complications from contracting Measles, mumps or rubella were SO much greater than the odds of a possible link with autism. We had the vaccine. No worries.

MrBirlingsAwfulWife · 03/11/2018 20:03

Thanks @selfidentifyinggiraffe I do understand the point you are making.

My issue with the way we as a society value individuals and their 'contribution' is for a different discussion.

Breadfoam · 03/11/2018 20:07

My daughter has had single measles vaccine and measles and rubella combined vaccine. She is nearly 3.
At 3.4 she will have the first mmr.
I don’t think mmr causes autism but we have a strong autoimmune disease history and mumps is one of the viruses implicated in causing autoimmune diseases. I wanted to wait until she was that bit older before she had it. Who knows it that will make any difference?
I read a study (don’t know how reliable) that said that children with autoimmune diseases in their family were more likely to have a reaction to live vaccines.
I did the same thing with my son.
Don’t know if it’s right or not; I felt anxious delaying the vaccine but I feel anxious about giving it too.
Autoimmune conditions are increasing in the under 5s and I can’t help wondering if it might be due to the amount of live vaccines they receive.
I’ve still vaccinated my children but as I said I have delayed the Mmr for both of them.

rainbowquack · 03/11/2018 20:17

@Breadfoam , interesting point. I am
a big believer in the hygiene hypothesis. Either way, things are changing, which is a great opportunity for us to reflect on findings as a society and evolve/adapt wherever possible.

Willow2017 · 03/11/2018 21:45

Yet here you are today willow

This wins the prize for the worst fricking mums excuse of the year!

You would risk your childrens lives when they could die from measles before you actually research properly your bat shit ideas against vaccination?

How do you know how close i came to Not being here?

You do know your kids could have the mumps virus and you wouldnt know it dont you?

Going around gleefully infecting pregmant women: risk of miscarriage, immune suppressed people and kids who havent yet been vaccinated.: infection and inflamation of brain membranes, pancreas, ovaries, testes. What a lovely gift to pass on.

Go you. Hope you can sleep at night.

I really hope you dont have a measles outbreak near you and herd immunity protects your kids cos you arent.

IntoTheDeep · 03/11/2018 22:13

Coincidentally, I’ve just seen on my Facebook feed a post from a FB friend along the lines of “I’m pretty sure Alex has measles. What can I do to stop Archie catching it?”

Alex is about 9 months old, so too young to have had the first MMR jab.
Archie, Alex’s big brother, is 8 or 9. Archie has autism. And presumably he hasn’t had the MMR (or separate vaccines), given his mum’s question.

Bit late to be suggesting vaccinations now though, if the baby really does have measles, big brother will most likely catch it (if he hasn’t already) before the vaccine would have any chance to work.

SinkGirl · 03/11/2018 22:16

I do know people with asd can live extremely fulfilled lives. i also know of many who do not. If I could avoid it as a condition, I would, put it that way.

And in order to avoid that (despite the link being entirely disproven), you’re going to risk your children contracting preventable illnesses that can kill or cause severe disability?

I’ve watched my son fight for his life from a preventable illness. I at least knew that I had done all I could to prevent it - I’m not sure I’d be able to live with myself if I hadn’t done everything I could. At several points I really thought I was watching him die.

He’s since been diagnosed with brain damage that occurred early in his life - no way to know if it was caused by that virus or something else.

He’s being tested for genetic conditions now but if not he’ll be diagnosed with ASD and his twin might be too.

The thought that I’d consider it preferable to unnecessarily endanger their lives or health than have them be as they are is beyond comprehension (and yes, one of them is severely delayed).

I sincerely hope that you never have to experience watching your child in such a dire state. Even more, I hope that not vaccinating your children doesn’t lead to any vulnerable people don’t pay for the price for your choices. And I hope you have the decency to let those around you know that your children are not vaccinated so they can make their own decisions about whether to be around you all. I would say I hope you don’t take your kids to baby and toddler groups but that’s irrelevant since anywhere they go they can come into contact with someone who then has contact with a baby or vulnerable person.

muchalover · 03/11/2018 22:20

I have a son with autism. I have three children without autism. The youngest two (one with, one without autism) did NOT have the MMR. The eldest two (neither has autism) both had the MMR.

SinkGirl · 03/11/2018 22:20

Part of that was gibberish - clearly my anger is showing. I meant Even more, I hope that not vaccinating your children doesn’t lead to any vulnerable people paying the price for your choices.

muchalover · 03/11/2018 22:24

I should add they had them separately when a little older. It was at the peak MMR=autism scare so I waited.

Gilead · 03/11/2018 22:28

I do know people with asd can live extremely fulfilled lives. i also know of many who do not. If I could avoid it as a condition, I would, put it that way.
Marie Stopes is alive and kicking.

zzzzz · 03/11/2018 23:06

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Sashkin · 03/11/2018 23:48

Archie has autism. And presumably he hasn’t had the MMR

This makes even less sense. If your child already has autism, why would you not vaccinate them? Does she think he will get more autistic? Confused

Sashkin · 03/11/2018 23:51

And yes it is probably to probably too late to do any good, but in that situation I would vaccinate the older child immediately on the small off-chance he hasn’t caught it off the younger brother yet. Can’t possibly hurt, outside chance it might help.

selfidentifyinggiraffe · 04/11/2018 00:22

Look I will bite on the slight chance that @grabbit is not a troll and genuine,

I was an anti vaxxer at one point. It was a private doctor who sat down and had the time to discuss my concerns (which obviously I paid for his time to do) who persuaded me to vaccinate and at the time I could afford to do this and catch my child up. I will be forever grateful that by whatever means, even me paying... someone helped me to understand the risks I was taking with my child who I love more than anything and how stupid I was being to think I was saving them from anything by simply not vaccinating. I've been on both sides, I've probably read the same stuff, spoken to the same people. My child is now vaccinated beyond any other child their age who used the NHS schedule.

I have friends who have delayed vaccines and one who I do agree with her decision - possibly that child is one of the higher risk children to vaccinate based on his current health conditions

I completely do understand someone being scared of vaccinating based on a few very tragic examples of children who seemed triggered by a vaccine

I think it may have been the doctor I used though who pointed out to me that yes, it's possible that vaccines harm a small proportion of children who are predisposed to reacting badly for reasons we don't yet know... but all of those children if they react so badly to the vaccine which holds a tiny amount.... just imagine what would happen to those children if they actually contracted the disease itself. Do you really think if a child has a severe reaction to the vaccine that if they caught the actual disease they'd be in the catagory of those for whom the disease may be a "mild childhood illness"? They aren't the children for whom it would be a mild childhood illness, they are the kids who at best would be left permanently disabled and may end up dead!!!

The other children for whom it would be a mild childhood illness- will have no problem with a vaccine

The reason someone may be unlikely to catch the diseases is that herd immunity prevents disease from circulating, we need it. Especially the children who have other health conditions that clearly indicate they are at risk.

Diseases aren't static - what may have often been a mild childhood illness when everyone used to get it - isn't, when few people get it - they have to evolve to survive and can be far more serious years later because of this or when someone's immune system is more mature as they are older it can be a much more serious disease to catch and need to fight

If not enough people vaccinate for herd immunity then as a whole - even those vaccinated are at risk, because having a vaccine does not mean that you won't catch the disease. You will have a much higher chance of not catching it - but all of our bodies are different- one person may produce a higher level of protection than another in their body after a vaccine or the disease, some people don't actually become immune at all for whatever reason and in some it wears off sooner. Herd immunity is not a private choice to make really... enough people make it and we have the disease circulating and spreading more often harming more people- particularly those children who would potentially be vaccine damaged, who if they contract the disease - suffer long lasting effects of disability or even death. The only reason @grabbit finds her children safe is because of those who make the choice (bar any obvious health conditions) to vaccinate their kids and contribute to herd immunity. If this drops though... supposing they are a child who would possibly react badly to a vaccine (which we know based on the large numbers who vaccinate is a very very small proportion) ... they will also react very very very badly to the disease, it's very likely they will die or be permanently severely disabled!!! By deciding herd immunity isn't her responsibility for her kids (as I naively once did when entrenched in pseudoscience) she is putting them at even greater risk of being affected badly.

It's not really a choice in my mind anymore. It's actually making her own children at greater risk. I'm glad I learned this before I learned it the hard way as I would never have forgiven myself.

Binkytheslug · 04/11/2018 00:23

There isn’t a link.
Andrew Wakefield (or to use his full medical title: Andrew Wakefield) wanted to flog single vaccines. He did all he could to ‘prove’ a link in order to discredit MMR, many of which were very unethical. Rest assured, proper peer reviewed RCT’s in many centres have failed to support his claims.

selfidentifyinggiraffe · 04/11/2018 00:23

Sorry no idea what happened with the rogue bolding in my very long post 😳😳

selfidentifyinggiraffe · 04/11/2018 00:36

This makes even less sense. If your child already has autism, why would you not vaccinate them? Does she think he will get more autistic?

Yeah probably . Some children who have autism do seem to react particularly sensitively to things (not just vaccines, food, medication etc) - and can regress.

But yet... not all children with autism do. So there's more to it than a child having autism...

OkPedro · 04/11/2018 00:40

Marie stopes advocated aborting children with autism gilead ?

differentnameforthis · 04/11/2018 01:30

No. It was a study that was purposely conducted in order to link the two and it has now been disproved and the dr has lost his license.

If you have three children with autism, then it is likely that your fourth will have it, vaccines or not.

I know several children with autism who haven't been given the MMR and several without autism who have been given the MMR.

Autism is neurological. It cannot be caused a vaccine.

differentnameforthis · 04/11/2018 01:34

Marie stopes advocated aborting children with autism gilead Doubt it, there is no way of testing for asd inutero.

Walkingdeadfangirl · 04/11/2018 01:36

There is 100% no link. No vaccines no school. No vaccines no access to the NHS. If you want to be part of a cult you should NOT have access to civilised society. Lets part ways.

SwearySwearyQuiteContrary · 04/11/2018 02:34

There is no link. Countless peer reviewed studies consistently demonstrate no association between MMR and autism. There is no link. Please vaccinate your children.

YouCantTourniquetTheTaint · 04/11/2018 03:08

howdovaccinescauseautism.com/

It beggars belief that people still think that vaccines cause autism. I just don't understand why it's preferable to risk your child dying by not vaccinating than the imaginary link to autism, and also just how incredibly offensive that is. You'd much rather your child die than get autism (if there was a link that is)

Vaccines have to be the most researched medical treatments in the world ever. And I know that people post articles that look legit, and memes about the ingredients within vaccines which are often wrong and also out of date.

I saw a brilliant takedown of one the anti vax memes where the person walked through ingredient by ingredient and explained what they did. He backed up everything with peer reviewed research. And even then people were saying that their neighbours, sisters, cousins kid got autism from a vaccine this was with a comprehensive analysis of the ingredients.

He also explained how the vaccine damage compensation fund worked and how most of the claims (I believe over 90%) were for things like a sore arm or getting a minor cold after a vaccine.

Currently herd immunity is keeping these diseases in check with regards to severity and the number of cases, but that won't last forever.

I hear that iron lungs have gotten a little fancier since the 50s, so there's a plus Hmm

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