Mmr and links to austim

[Michelle38wales]

Do you think there’s a link with mmr and austim, I’ve already 3 children with austim so not sure about my baby having it

Threads like these are just an excuse for mumsnetters to show how intellectually superior they are. Bollocks @surtree

OP asked a question which was answered. But for some reason OP doesn't want to accept the answer and gets cross with posters for their lack of empathy.

Descredited science and the desire of journalists to sell sensational stories has led to a false belief that is still being discussed 20 years down the line. It's dangerous.

It has nothing to do with intellect - its simply that the ultimate truth was not reported with the same extraordinary enthusiasm that the false science was spread across the world.

People on this thread are just stating facts.

I think there is a place for people who seek reassurance after reading about and feeling scared when they read about Robert Fletcher's case or the few others I can think of off the top of my head. It's emotive and tragic

it is also so, so rare and it's easy to forget that when you are faced with the reality that someone may have had an awful reaction

nobody wants their child to be a statistic... but your child has a much higher chance of being a statistic if they are NOT vaccinated- but we just don't have people over the media saying "look how this disease has permanently disabled my child, don't let them catch it" in the same way as we have "look how this vaccine has, don't let them have it" ...

thanks to vaccines we have to look at history or sometimes developing countries to see that the disease harms far more than the vaccine, and the vaccine prevents so much suffering

I think it's human nature to feel somewhat removed from a country far from you where tragedies happen, or from tragedies in history - I think our health campaigns need to work out how to bridge this gap to get it through that this will happen here in your world, your life... if we all decided vaccines were too risky.

Out of the two - risk of vaccinating or risk of catching an infectious disease causing long term effects ... the vaccine is like a pin you need a magnifying glass to see compared with the moon (much bigger is my point)

@grabbit
Presumably you have done a risk assessment showing the likelihood hood of risk and the severity of risk for getting the MMR vs not getting it.
Please share this with us as you seem so convinced of the risks of each. This will help others make an informed choice.

But @selfidentifyinggiraffe, the OP was not asking about the dangers of vaccination per se - OP asked if we "thought" there was a link between MMR and autism. That question is easily answered - there isn't.

@marcopront - I don’t think that poster will be making any more comments. I reported the poster last night and Mumsnet messaged to say they are a pbp.

@MrBirlingsAwfulWife that's true. I think I thought if you have 3 children with autism you were clutching at straws and a bit late if you had genuine concerns about MMR having a link - I mean you would have noticed after the first or at least second if you really believed their autism was possibly triggered by it but since the thread was going and cases like Robert Fletcher were bought up that I would pop along and say ah, yeah I had those fears - I don't anymore because I was thankfully persuaded by the evidence that the risk is so minimal compared with risk of disability from catching one we have vaccines for

@selfidentifyinggiraffe I think you have given really helpful advice about the broader issue of concerns re vaccinations.

MrBirlingsAwfulWife

Are you happy for op instead to blame something that actually saves her child from death rather than blame her own genes? If that's the case, then just take a roulette risk on kids and see what happens if they contract deadly diseases. That's better than having autism, right? I'd rather the kid had autism than died, but that's just me. Autism isnt a negative thing. Dead is.

@OkPedro, Marie Stopes was a vocal member of the Eugenics movement.

@Worriedandanxiousmama
Thanks. That's why she stopped posting then.

Microbiology lecturer here. There is no link between MMR and autism. There is however a link between the increasing number of people who believe their internet browsing makes them qualified immunologists and the rise in preventable infectious diseases in Europe.

@Santaclarita I am objecting to the word "blame".

The word itself is totally negative - it is used in the context of being responsible for something bad. My DD is autistic. "Blame" doesn't have any place in the discussion about the origins of her autism.

And if you have read the thread you will have seen that I have posted consistently throughout about the vital importance of vaccination and the zero connection between MMR and autism.

Zippy1510 if you are so qualified answer me this. Why don't adults get vaccinated? Vaccines are only effective for few years..10 at absolute most..So why is it important to vaccinate children while their parents, teachers, aunts, uncles have no immunity? I just don't get it..

I have had all 3 diseases: mumps, measels and rubella as MMR was not invented yet and they were common childhood illnesses and I'm actually immune for life now..but those who never got those and are adults are completely unprotected...It doesn't make sense.

Adding my voice to the sensible masses.

THERE IS NO LINK.

MrBirlingsAwfulWife then object to the op that wants to blame the vaccine, not me.

Sickle cell is genetic I think...

I've never heard anyone talking about "blaming" genetics

Just that it's down to genes

Whereas autism had a horrible theory originally that BLAMED 'refrigerator mothers' for a child having autism. It was bollocks but people continue with the mother blame in more subtle forms

So particularly "blame" should be thrown out of the vocabulary for discussing genetic link to autism

Nobody chooses their own genes - we can't "blame" someone for something they aren't responsible for, even ourselves as mothers

"@selfidentifyinggiraffe I think you have given really helpful advice about the broader issue of concerns re vaccinations."

I agree. Your posts have been very balanced and informative.

Zippy1510

If you are at all worried, just delay the mmr. It's not a now or never thing. The signs of autism will become abundantly clear soon enough if they are. Waiting s year to start the vaccination process is not going to ruin the world.

@Santaclarita I responded to the actual words you used in your post.

Sorry but it came from you or their father, not mmr. They are born autistic, they don't become autistic through any means. Blame your genes, not a vaccine.

blame
/bleɪm/
verb
1.
feel or declare that (someone or something) is responsible for a fault or wrong.

noun
1.
responsibility for a fault or wrong.

You said Blame your genes, not a vaccine

Now do you understand why I object to you using the word blame?

I am sure you don't regard my daughter as faulty or wrong but surely you can see that that is the implication?

If you are at all worried, just delay the mmr.

And how is that going to protect the child?

it's not a now or never thing. The signs of autism will become abundantly clear soon enough if they are. Waiting s year to start the vaccination process is not going to ruin the world.

No but it could be fatal for the child in question.

My opinion is that if you don't vaccinate you are putting your child at risk of death or avoidable lifelong difficulties because of something that was disproved several decades ago.

I'm not convinced either way.

What we can say is that no studies have supported Andrew Wakefield. But with the way Wakefield was treated I can't imagine anyone is to will to take that on.

Autism in whatever form is and awful lot better than some of the worse side effects of the illnesses themselves.

If the government was at all worried about heard immunity that should have and continue to offer 3 separate jabs to those refusing the MMR. At additional cost to the parents if necessary.

Yes Autism is genetic. We know that if you have one child with Autism you chances of a second child become waaay higher.

But sensory processing issues (including those found with autism) frequently connected with the sympathetic nervous system . We know precious little about the sympathetic nervous system but we are slowly linking it with chemical immune responses.

Same with immune responses and de novo genetic mutations.

In short. I wish the separate vaccines were more available through your GP. I don't want parents to go to some untrusted clinic. Mine had the MMR but only because I couldn't get the MMR separately through trusted sources.

I don't think any government at any point has acted responsibly in respect of this subject.

What we can say is that no studies have supported Andrew Wakefield. But with the way Wakefield was treated I can't imagine anyone is to will to take that on.

He lied. To millions. On purpose. He deserved worse.

Wakefield has made money and is now building a nice career for himself in US exploiting misplaced anxiety. He'll cope. The bastard.