AIBU to refuse DD 25's request to live with me rent free?

[Felinefancier]

For the last four years DD, 25 has lived in houses owned by me. The idea was she would rent out some of the rooms and pay me a discounted rent, while she worked on her passion, music.

We had a formal tenancy agreement, but she wasn't doing a particularly good job of managing this latest house. When I raised this with her in July we agreed she would move out at the end of August.

She left in the middle of August leaving lots of unpaid bills, repairs not done, piles of belongings and no forwarding address. It has taken me weeks for me to clear all the rubbish sort out the tenants etc.

She got in touch a few days ago and has been camping in and around Glastonbury. Last night she told me that she has no money and needs help and can she come and live with me rent free for 2 months while she gets herself on her feet. There have been no apologies for the mess she left for me to clean up.

I feel she is manipulating me for my deficiencies as a mother (the request to come and stay came after a long conversation about how hard life was for her growing up).

AIBU to refuse?

[Havaina]

Dr Aisha Spellcaster, lol

[SaucyJack]

Does being a Dr Spellcaster pay well enough to support yourself, or do you also live off the Bank of Mum and Dad?

Maybe you can give the OP’s daughter some career advice Aisha?

[Believeitornot]

What did the therapy turn out? And what’s your relationship like with her beyond the practical side?

I would still put her up as winter is coming and the options for the homeless are fucking awful but give her an ultimatum about supporting herself.

[zingally]

Of course I'd let her live with me... BUT, there would be conditions.

Just off the top of my head, things like:
-Responsibility for cleaning the bathroom, say twice a week.
-Preparing and cleaning up from 3 evening meals a week.
-Actively able to demonstrate that she is job hunting. But not just "trying to do music". She needs to show she's pursuing all avenues and taking whatever she can get. Cleaning, warehouse work, shelf stacking. If it were me, I'd have a rule that she needed to be in at least part time employment within 2 months. That's more than long enough to find something if she's not fussy.

Are you sure there's not any other problems...? She's 25 and basically living on the streets? At the VERY least, I'd be suspecting a drug/drink problem. That's not normal behaviour.

[Bambamrubblesmum]

Sounds to me like she is desperately trying to get your attention with all these crazy plans. Like a small child saying 'look at me mummy'.

I think you should take her in and put these ground rulea in place:

No drugs and a monthly drug test as a condition of her staying with you. If she isnt clean then you'll need to look into rehab as a further condition. She needs to build the trust with you.

Minimal amount of money for basics

Commitment to get a job.

Get that underway for the first few months and theb go from there.

I would spend lots and lots of time talking, doing things together and reconnecting.

[gendercritter]

I would be tough with her in your shoes. I would maybe let her live with me for 2 months but she'd have to be completely drug free and search for work in that time. And get counselling if necessary. It would be 2 months only as that's plenty of time to find a nice houseshare. If she babysits in that time at least she'll have enough for a deposit.

I definitely believe in giving young people time to sort themselces out but she's not 19 and she's in danger or being a pain in the neck and the female equivalent of a cocklodger if she doesn't start taking responsibility. You've been more than generous letting her live with reduced rent but she hasn't exactly made the most of that huge opportunity. I think if you're tough now it'll be the making of her

[HoustonBess]

If you were a workaholic and regret it, that means you prioritised earning and life outside the family over your kids.
I think you need to really learn that lesson, it doesn't sound like you have.

You're presenting the problem about her coming back as if it's about money. I can see why you're annoyed if she left your property in a state but it might help if you focused on the emotional side of things a bit more. Let her stay with you for a fixed amount of time, set boundaries (getting a job, sorting her problems etc) but also be open to building a different kind of relationship with her with less of a materialistic core.

Be open, give her lots of love, admit you maybe didn't do perfectly in the past, but make your relationship about respect rather than money. If you think she's being disrespectful through abuse of finances, that's a problem but it shouldn't be about the money per se.

[Sakura7]

I would take her in and tell her you're making a GP appointment - sell it as getting back to counselling again to work on your relationship. Go with her to the appointment and if possible try to talk to the GP privately beforehand (maybe over the phone). I really think there's a high chance she has bipolar or another illness, her behaviour goes beyond being spoilt or entitled as some posters are suggesting.

[TemptressofWaikiki]

Both DH and I have an artistic background and went to art colleges. But we never bummed around, getting subsidised by the bank of mummy or daddy. Instead, we also did a number of jobs, DH in the construction industry and me in a variety of professional jobs. This is what artists and musicians tend to have to do. We’ve seen OP’s DD type all around us and I would not put your daughter up in your place. She will never get her arse in gear and actually make any effort to fund her own life. It sounds highly manipulative to actually get in touch that close to being kicked out, instead of making any sort of effort to look for a new place herself. She wasn’t homeless and it is pretty outrageous to liken her rather spoilt lifestyle to anyone genuinely on the streets. So far, she had no incentive of taking any responsibility for her own life. OP gave her a really good set-up with allowing her to rent out rooms and coordinate repairs etc because it isn’t a full-time job and allowed her plenty of time to indulge in her hobby. Instead of honouring that arrangement, she pocketed the money and left a trail of destruction. From the post it seems OP hasn’t even heard an apology about her behaviour. There appears zero contrition for her recent shitty behaviour and instead she guilt-tripped her mother. I’d advocate tough love because she appears to have zero respect for you OP and sees you as a cash machine. You cannot buy her love. She needs to earn your respect and start taking some responsibility for her own life.

[folduptheocean]

She's your daughter so yes.

[henbane]

Ground rules don't work for drug addicts (or alcoholics probably). If I were you, I wouldn't let her live with me.

As others have said, offer to help with deposit/first month or two's rent, possibly pay for room in Travelodge until she finds a flat share, so she's not actually sleeping rough in this cold weather. She isn't a teenager and has to learn to take responsibility for herself.

[ittakes2]

She sounds like she has developed mental health or other issues. You seemed to imply that she has usually been good with your house rentals - its just the last one she has mucked up and became a disaster. She has stuffed up once and you are therefore thinking of letting her stay homeless. If a daughter can't turn to her mother for help in her crisis where else can she go. Rather than tell her off for her last failure with you - tell her she has always been good in the past but the last rental went pear-shaped and you are wondering why she thinks it went that way. Offer to help her get her mind back to where it needs to be. Unless of course you don't want her in your life - I think if you leave her homeless it is absolutely a message to her that you don't care and if I was her I would go NC with you.

[Sleepsoon7]

As someone suggested upthread - I would say come home now and let’s discuss a (joint) plan going forward. If you consider she is using drugs and can’t fund her habit then you need to consider whether you need to put locks on eg your bedroom door and move small valuables in there. That would probably need to be part of the discussion. Can you take some time off work and be around to help her get in to a routine of housework, looking for jobs, food prepping etc. A mental health assessment may well be the way forward if you can get her to agree. If of course she is just lazy and entitled then that’s another matter - but how will you know until you get her home and spend time (probably over several days) talking to her...

[blueskiesandforests]

I'm thinking along the lines of Gingerrogered 's post.

Why are all your posts about money? Even the therapy you've both had is phrased as "I paid for us both to have therapy". It's all about money. Especially wierd if you're not short of money to fixate on it and define your relationships in transactional business terms.

I'm sure your DD is in no way blameless, but everything about this situation is twisted by what sounds like an obsession with money.

Obviously nobody wants to be taken advantage of, but you cannot see your daughter homeless in winter to teach her a lesson, when you have multiple houses.

It's complex I'm sure, but stop fixating on the cost of everything and think about the value (NOT in financial terms) of a stable base and relationship. Don't give her money but give her a safe, warm, dry base for as long as she needs it and respects the place in terms of not being excessively loud or messy. Take the £ out of the forefront of your relationship and mind for once.

[ohnonotyetplease]

Difficult situation... Yes I would take her in, but there'd be conversations about how you can't just 'follow your dream' and expect others to pick up the pieces when you're so consumed with 'passion' for something that you forget to behave like a responsible adult.
Ground rules with real life consequences would have to be set.
Hope it goes ok for you both x

[NoSquirrels]

Do you like her, OP? Nothing emotional comes across in your posts.

^Oh do fuck off.
You think you're qualified with your arm chair psychology to make that judgement over a few words on a thread where the OP is clearly trying to lay out the facts for pragmatic views on her situation.
What bellend comes up with that?^

This sort of bellend, I guess, TheDay.

I wasn’t making a judgement, I was asking a question. (Which the OP has answered.) It’s quite possible to love someone but not like them much, even your own family. And there can be loads of very good reasons not to like them. It does make a difference to the advice the OP gets offered - big difference between “would do anything to help her” and “I feel I cannot help because emotionally I’m exhausted”.

I wasn’t passing judgement.

[Lizzie48]

My DM is similar in that she has a tendency to throw money at a problem in order to solve it. I think it's a common response in those who didn't have money in the past. My DM was born dirt poor in 1939 on a farm. The OP was left financially short when her DD's father bailed.

My DM has tried to make up for her failure to protect us as children by throwing money at us constantly. There is no need for it where DSis and I are concerned but she still tries, so I no longer discuss financial issues with her.

It's not a case of being obsessed with making money because of being greedy, it's seeing money as the solution to every problem, which it isn't. You can have everything that money can buy, but still completely screwed up.

[Singlenotsingle]

The problem is if you let her home now, rent free, you could find she'll still be there in a year's time! I have a D's aged 40, who came back in January, rent free because he wasn't working, and he's still here. He does odd self employed work but somehow there's never enough money to pay me anything.

Like you, it's not that I can't afford to support him. Our house is big enough, and we bring in enough to feed him. I just worry that he's never going to be able to support himself if he doesn't want to pay anything.

[blueskiesandforests]

Temptress sofa surfing with no fixed abode is homeless according to shelter and common sense (homeless means without a fixed home, not specifically sleeping on the street). Street homelessness is the extreme form of homelessness, but people who don't have a fixed abode are homeless.

[TemptressofWaikiki]

@blueskiesandforests Yes, I do understand re: sofa surfing and being classed as homeless. It was more of a response to the tugging at heartstrings and comments about being cold this time of year. It’s all about context. DH and I know plenty of ‘musicians’ who continued the feckless lifestyle of not working and proclaiming to be free spirits who cannot be tied down by mundane jobs, bills and boring routine who doss on sofas and outstay their welcome all across their acquaintances. Both DP and I put a quick end to any of these freeloaders at our place because we did have to work all sorts of jobs to pursue our dreams of being creative. It’s not always about mental health, drug addiction or any other suggested issues but the fact that some people like to bum around and not grow up or take on any responsibilities, while making it everyone else’s problem. OP’s daughter sounds very much like this.

[Gingerrogered]

I think a lot of posters are hugely overestimating how good the deal was for DD in the first place. She was paying £1,700 per month for a room in a shared house. If it was at full occupancy that was covered and she had less than the minimum wage monthly, presumably she also had to pay for repairs out of that and put some aside to make up rent in months when not many rooms were let. That sounds to me more like a recipe for getting trapped in a great deal of debt rather than a sweet deal.

[tiredgirly]

No,the whole house rental value was £2700 including the ddsroom . I don't think the op was going her dad a favour,I think she was pushing all the risks of landlordship (empty rooms and repairs and nonpayers onto her dd in return for no rent)
Op can you clarify how much the market rental was excluding your DDS room?

[CottonTailRabbit]

You really need to know if she's an addict or just feckless and entitled.

Even if you were the world's shittest mother that doesn't mean you would owe her a living. It also doesn't mean you would have to tolerate living with an addict.

Has she explained her plan for getting back on her feet? Has she explained what went wrong previously?

It seems like you don't believe she will end up homeless on the streets. She has chosen to spend money on a car and has presumably been living rent free recently.

From your description it sounds like she wants to live off you so she doesn't have to do boring crap shit like a get a dull job to pay the rent. Is that what you think the true situation is?

I'd ask the honest opinion of the people she's sofa surfing with now. If they have given a firm end date I'm guessing they have the measure of her.

[TemptressofWaikiki]

Oh, give over. The rental income was £2,700 at the lowest long-term rate. That left OP’s daughter with an income of £900 for what is at best very part time work, giving her a lot of spare time to devote to her hobbies. No where did the OP say that she needed to pay repairs out of that amount but instead she mentioned that she left the state in disrepair and doing any agreed maintenance. The DD actually earned a lot more by short term let and then bailed, leaving the place in a mess. She is 25 not 19!

[PumpkinPiloter]

What is the point of having multiple properties and being well off financially if you can not help your family? My children will always have a place to stay with me come hell or high water. It sounds to me like you want to punish her for the way she handled the last house and hence are using your support as a weapon.