Brother died intestate - disagreement over his estate

[Miggymoggymugwumps]

My beloved brother died very unexpectedly earlier this year, it was a huge shock and has been very hard to deal with losing him. For background he had a successful career, never married and at the time of his death was single with no dependents. Because he had no children of his own he idolised his nieces and nephews and was a huge part of their lives from the day they were all born. There are 4 of them and they are now all adults with the youngest being 18 and the eldest 32.(2 are mine and 2 are my sisters)

Anyway he always said (as you do at times) that if anything ever happened to him he'd leave something to me and my sister but that the bulk of his estate would be equally split between 'all the kids'. However it is now apparent that he never got around to making a Will and that he died intestate, so his next of kin become the beneficiaries. That is our parents and of course this is totally right and proper. Now everything has been settled his estate comes to a little over £400,000 which is obviously a vast amount.

This is were problems are now creeping in. My Dad who seems to have had a personality transplant now that he's come into money has decided to give the nieces and nephews just £5,000 each. Now I know this isn't to be sniffed at but I can't help feeling that it is a bit stingy bearing in mind just how much inheritance there is but most of all it is absolutely not what my brother would have wanted. Her always said he wanted them to benefit, and mentioned this on many occasions, to me, my sister, our parents, friends and even his next door neighbours. Even at his funeral close friends of his said that is what he wanted to happen.

My Dad says that because he didn't make a Will that the situation is different now and that the kids and us will end up with it all eventually anyway when him and Mum pass away. They are late 70's, and thankfully in good health but obviously may need care in the future which will need to be paid for. Dad says he's going to have their bathroom and kitchen done, have a conservatory, buy a new car and go on nice holidays.

I gently tried to explain that although my brother would have wanted them to enjoy themselves 'on him' and make their lives a bit easier his actual wishes about the nieces and nephews having it were getting forgotten. Dad doesn't seem to want to acknowledge this at all, my Mum agrees with us but can't get through to him either and it's starting to cause friction. If there is a solution please tell me as I just want to do things right by my brother!

This is so sad, your Dad is not being very nice at all, but unless you’ve evidence of your brothers wishes in writing that you can use to contest I’m not sure there’s much you can do.

To be fair there are limits to what can be given each year anyway (I think it's £3000/year). If they die within 7 years of giving more than that tax will have to be paid on it. They could maybe persuaded to give some each year (the £3000 - if that is to any number of people? I'm not sure of the rules). They can also give ?£250/month out of income if it doesn't affect their lifestyle. I'm really not sure of the amounts & rules but you can easily look this up. Maybe he could be persuaded that this in inheritance tax planning & therefore a good thing (& stopping HMRC getting their hands on "his" money. All of this assumes that their joint estate will be over the threshold for inheritance tax, which of course it might not be.

There isn't a solution. If there's no Will the estate devolves under the rules of intestacy. If your dB was so keen to leave his money to the children, he should have made a Will. It sounds as though he wasn't really old enough to expect to die, but it can happen to any of us at any time. Car accidents, strokes, heart attacks! Maybe your df can be persuaded to set up a trust fund for his grandchildren.

If your brother really had all these strong feelings about it he would have made a will. It sucks that your brothers money is all going to go to your dad's benefit but there's nothing you can do.

This is so common, the perils of no will. It makes no difference what your brother would have wanted, he didn't write a will. Your father has no obligation to give anyone anything. You will inherit from your parents. You should not be pressing him to give to your children even if you think you are right, you are not. legally or morally. In fact, £5000 is a very nice sum for a young adult. You will achieve nothing but fracturing your family. It is only money, leave it. The fault lies in the lack of will, nothing more

I firmly believe that money should pass downwards, rather than up.

But then, DF has lost a son, so who knows how that would fxxx up your head...

Condolences btw

Furrycushion those limits wouldn’t be relevant here as the father would vary the inestacy using a deed of variation rather than making personal gifts himself.

OP unfortunately there really isn’t anything to be done legally. Grief does make people do strange things so hopefully your father’s personality transplant will be reversed in due course.

My Dad says that because he didn't make a Will that the situation is different now and that the kids and us will end up with it all eventually anyway when him and Mum pass away.

I hate this BS excuse that old people use for not helping their DCs/ grandchildren. The fact that they legally have a right to do as they please with their own money doesn't make it OK to piss money away on cars and conservatories while the next two or even three generations are struggling. And how exactly does your DF think you're going to "get it all" when it's all been spent on travel or on home "improvements" which will be old and tatty by the time they kick the bucket in 15 years?

No useful advice I'm afraid, but you have my sympathy.

Your dad is being awful. I don’t think there’s a solution though. Other than your mother gifting the money to his DNs. It’s equally hers to do what she wishes with.

Your dad is being really awful, because he could have given them £50k each, which would have been a perfect house deposit and a great start in life, and still had £200k for themselves, which will more than cover house renovation and holidays, plus a chunk in the bank for rainy days. I’m not sure I’d be able to forgive him for this.

Furrycushion, if the GPs wanted the GC to have the money then it would be easy to prepare a deed of variation by which the money passed straight from the brother's estate to the GCs. That way there would be no restrictions on amount transferred and it would be very efficient in the long term from an IHT point of view (also in terms of care home expenses - though that's a risky game to play, because it restricts your choices if care is needed).

But if the grandparents don't want to do that then nobody can force them. The moral of this story is: if you want someone to benefit from your estate other than the person entitled under intestacy law then make a bloody will.

I agree with Biology - if it had been really important to him he'd have made a will. It is what it is.

When you say became apparent that no Will, what sort of steps were taken to try to find one? Are you totally sure that everything that could have been done to find one was?

Do people really talk say time and time again where they want their money to go when they die? Surely if your brother was that adamant about it going to his nieces and nephew he would have made sure he wrote a will ? I only ask this as my dh's sister is in a similar situation ( wealthy) yet has never once talked about her wishes despite being close to my dh.
I do understand your worry that this money could potentially go on care home fees but hopefully some will filter down to your children.

The comments above are valid about instigating a feed of variation and / or gifting money regularly, so they remain options.

However, the bit that would worry me is that as "surviving parents", both your mum & Dad inherited your brother's estate ..... yet your post mainly refers to what your dad is doing with his money. Your mum should be entitled to make her own decisions. (Although I can understand her not wishing to deliberately do the opposite of her husband).

Am assuming obviously that your parents inheriting is indeed the rules of intestacy where you are - they differ across the UK.

This is why everyone should make a will. It's absolutely no good saying what you want to happen unless it's black and white in the form of a will.

Unfortunately OP there is nothing you can do and now having lost your DB you now have the knowledge that your DF sees it all has his. The only thing I sound say is presumably the money went to BOTH your DPs so technically 50/50 between your DM and DF. If your DM thinks it should be distributed differently she could do that with her half.

I’d be thankful that my parents would now have enough money to pay for their care in old age. I dread mine getting too old to care for themselves and not being able to afford carers. Think of this as taking that responsibility off yours and your sister’s shoulders. When your parents die you can hand any money left straight to your children if you wish.

It's true that your parents are individuals for this purpose. Your father and mother will each inherit around 185,000 after IHT, and your mother could, if she so chose, use a deed of variation to pass nearly 50K directly to each grandchild.

Not sure about intestacy rules but isn't the money shared between your parents? if your mother disagrees, couldn't she do what she wants with her half and honour your db's wishes?

Sorry. Cross-posted.

Personally I would want to encourage your mother to stand up to him. By which I mean argue with him and possibly threaten the withdrawal of her love and support if he continues to behave like this. But then I'm in favour of healthy conflict these days and not the avoidance of friction at all costs, which usually means milder people (your mother I assume?) being walked over.

This is why people need a will. It would save somuch pain and confusion afterwards.

Your poor DB is the one at fault here - if he had wishes that he wanted to get followed, the only way to ensure it is make the will.

Surely your DB's next of kin are jointly your DM and DF. In that caseas you said your mum is in agreement with you, can she just make sure she signs nothing that your DB wouldn't have wanted. Condolences for your loss.

Money can bring out the worst in people, if your parents knew his wishes maybe your mum will give up her share and divide it four ways. Inheriting money this way shouldnt be celebrated with holidays and material things.I'm sorry for your sad loss

Thanks for all the comments so far and yes all this would have been avoided if he'd made a will. Due process on all his affairs have been finalised and the money deposited into my parents account so I appreciate it is now his and Mum's to spend how they wish.

Of course I love my parents dearly and appreciate that grief manifests itself in different ways and perhaps clouds logic etc. I've found it so so hard to accept I'll never see him again and have just wanted to try and put his wishes in place and I categorically know he'd be upset at the decision. However ,if that's my Dad's choice then I won't let it cause friction between us and you never know maybe further down the line he may change his mind!

Your parents can't just give it to them, it would have further implications. I can understand your disappointment. It seems odd he would mention his wishes to so many people yet not actually have a will? Surely your mum and dad should be making decisions together too?