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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Brother died intestate - disagreement over his estate

189 replies

Miggymoggymugwumps · 28/10/2018 13:34

My beloved brother died very unexpectedly earlier this year, it was a huge shock and has been very hard to deal with losing him. For background he had a successful career, never married and at the time of his death was single with no dependents. Because he had no children of his own he idolised his nieces and nephews and was a huge part of their lives from the day they were all born. There are 4 of them and they are now all adults with the youngest being 18 and the eldest 32.(2 are mine and 2 are my sisters)

Anyway he always said (as you do at times) that if anything ever happened to him he'd leave something to me and my sister but that the bulk of his estate would be equally split between 'all the kids'. However it is now apparent that he never got around to making a Will and that he died intestate, so his next of kin become the beneficiaries. That is our parents and of course this is totally right and proper. Now everything has been settled his estate comes to a little over £400,000 which is obviously a vast amount.

This is were problems are now creeping in. My Dad who seems to have had a personality transplant now that he's come into money has decided to give the nieces and nephews just £5,000 each. Now I know this isn't to be sniffed at but I can't help feeling that it is a bit stingy bearing in mind just how much inheritance there is but most of all it is absolutely not what my brother would have wanted. Her always said he wanted them to benefit, and mentioned this on many occasions, to me, my sister, our parents, friends and even his next door neighbours. Even at his funeral close friends of his said that is what he wanted to happen.

My Dad says that because he didn't make a Will that the situation is different now and that the kids and us will end up with it all eventually anyway when him and Mum pass away. They are late 70's, and thankfully in good health but obviously may need care in the future which will need to be paid for. Dad says he's going to have their bathroom and kitchen done, have a conservatory, buy a new car and go on nice holidays.

I gently tried to explain that although my brother would have wanted them to enjoy themselves 'on him' and make their lives a bit easier his actual wishes about the nieces and nephews having it were getting forgotten. Dad doesn't seem to want to acknowledge this at all, my Mum agrees with us but can't get through to him either and it's starting to cause friction. If there is a solution please tell me as I just want to do things right by my brother!

OP posts:
fiorentina · 28/10/2018 14:36

Could your mum get a deed of variation on her ‘half’ and split between the grandkids. Leaving your dad to spend the £200k as he wishes.
It’s sad that this has worked out this way and isn’t what your brother would have wanted.

callmeadoctor · 28/10/2018 14:37

They really do need to seek financial tax advice though!

seven201 · 28/10/2018 14:38

I don't think I'd be able to forgive my dad for that behaviour. He's going against his dead son's wishes. Yes he's grieving, but he is being a selfish arse. I think this has potential to ruin family relationships. It would be different if your parents were desperate for money but they clearly do not need a new conservatory!

Lweji · 28/10/2018 14:39

TBH, I'd be thinking of their needs in old age and let them not only enjoy the money, but also have a reassuring cushion should the worst happen.

The grandchildren can certainly inherit later.

Witchend · 28/10/2018 14:43

If there is a solution please tell me as I just want to do things right by my brother!
I would say that the right thing by your brother is to leave it. Your brother would not want friction between you, and if he'd really wanted it to go to your dc then he'd have done a will, it wouldn't have gone to them unless both your parents and you and siblings were dead.

Alwayscheerful · 28/10/2018 14:43

Deed of variation is the way forward but I am not sure it can be done without both beneficiaries being willing.
There will not be £200k for each parent, there will be inheritance tax due at 40% on the excess above £325k allowance and probably a hefty solicitors bill too.

Tinkety · 28/10/2018 14:44

Hang on a minute though, surely when your brother was talking about leaving his estate to his nieces & nephews, it was based on the assumption that he would outlive your parents? If your brother had known he would predecease his parents, isn’t it possible that his wishes might have been different & he might have wanted them to have his estate?

There’s a good chance that I may never have children of my own & I have always said that if that were to be the case, then I would want everything to go to my nieces HOWEVER in this hypothetical scenario, I’m dying at a grand old age & my parents have already gone. If I were to die first though, I would absolutely want my parents to have my estate instead.

AiryFairyUnicornRainbow · 28/10/2018 14:45

Oh god, if you know darn well this (current situation ) is not what your bro would have wanted I can see why you are concerned.

I am a firm believer in money being passed downwards rather than upwards. What is an older persons luxury (a conservatory) is a younger persons life line ( a route to a roof over their head)

Granddad is being selfish in the extreme. Yeah the grand kids will get it, but they could be waiting until they are middle aged or beyond, by then......

I saw this happen -almost exact thing....money was passed upwards, and the younger generation, one was actually homeless at the time,
but was expected to be pleased that their grandparents were going on cruises whilst living in a mansion, whilst younger one was struggling to even eat...... this was all on money that the deceased wanted passed to the younger ones but never made a will.....massive family uproar......elders eventually made their own will which stipulated upon their departure, they left the lot to charity.

Fucking abysmal

People change so much when there is a few quid involved. Pound signs in their eyes and fuck the family

Mummyoflittledragon · 28/10/2018 14:46

Ops mother is a different generation. My mother was deferring to her husband on all financial matters even when he was extremely disabled and unable to care for himself. He made some very poor decisions, which were difficult for my mother in time, stress and financially but she still agreed to them. It’s very difficult for me to comprehend. Ops mother sounds the same.

I would talk to your mother about the deed of variance. 50% of the money is hers and she should get to choose how it is used.

MrsReacher1 · 28/10/2018 14:50

True - I have two childless friends who will both leave money to my DD - so they say. But both also care for elderly parents. I know for a fact - because we discussed it when my friend had a cancer diagnosis - that they both want their elderly parent looked after as a priority. If DFriend died - no-one would care for her mum and she would ask me to do it and provide the funds for that. We have all been assuming she won't die until long after her mother though.

tiredgirly · 28/10/2018 14:57

YABU and graspy

Your DB could never have expected his parents to outlive him, so I think his comments about leaving money to nephews and nieces are unfortunately irrelevant.

Most people would want to take care of their elderly parents before their siblins kids!
.Your DF has been generous towards the kids, he blin didn't need to give them anything.You come over as very grasping and inconsiderate of the fact that they have just buried their child - the worst thing a parent can go through.

HollowTalk · 28/10/2018 14:59

I think in this situation your parents should have split it equally between them and you and your sister. It would then be up to you and your sister what you did with your share. I wouldn't be able to just take the whole share for myself, no matter how legal that was.

derxa · 28/10/2018 15:00

My DB died intestate and the money was split 50/50 between me and my DPs. My parents were furious about it because they were bereaved.
When my mother died the lawyer persuaded my DF to make a deed of variation so that I got another lump sum to avoid tax. I would just leave it alone though. You're in danger of causing ill feeling. Scottish Law

TeacupDrama · 28/10/2018 15:01

I expect DB never thought his parents would still be alive when he died so of course he never mentioned that aspect> he no doubt thought as most do that by the time he ded at average of 79 his siblings would be a similar age and not need money and therefore his nieces and nephews should inherit
if your brother had known he was going to die ( you said he died unexpectedly and suddenly) would he definitely have been unhappy for the money to go to his parents unless there is a huge back story almost certainly he would be happy for his parents to benefit it was just never envisaged

I think £5000 is quite a nice sum to get and a generous gift, my father just inherited from his sister and we ( my siblings and I) got extra last christmas I never thought I was owed more or that my DD should get it, your father may prefer to give nieces nephews etc a small sum annually rather than a large lump sum

The rules of intestacy are not unusual the nearest relatives get the stuff if you don't want this to happen you need to write a will your DB didn't

Rudgie47 · 28/10/2018 15:02

Basically your brother was full of hot air and false promises to you. If he really thought your children should have been left a lot of money there was nothing to stop him ensuring this would happen.
I'd just forget it and move on.

BettyDuMonde · 28/10/2018 15:02

Inheritance issues seem to bring out the worst in people :/

No advice, just sympathy - this has happened twice in my family and it can cause devastating rifts.

To be kind to your father (perhaps too kind) I think trying to hold onto money/possessions of the deceased loved one can be a psychological reaction to the loss.

Some people, however, are just greedy assholes!

KingsScorn · 28/10/2018 15:04

I'm so sorry OP.

I would assume that your brother would've expected to outlive his parents, and write a will when that occurred.

Your dad is behaving selfishly but I grief maybe clouding his judgement here. I'm not really sure what you can do other than ensure that your will is up to date. You've already gently suggested that this isn't what your brother intended and your dad hasn't changed his mind.

SushiMonster · 28/10/2018 15:05
  1. This is why people should make wills.
  1. Your dad is a cockbadger: I would ask him why he is happy for the money to pay for his care home, or, best case scanario and there is any left the government will get two lots of inheritance tax out of it. The idea of paying double IHT might help him see sense. Honestly what is he even going to do with the money? What a dick.
Powerless · 28/10/2018 15:07

Utterly disgraceful. I would not be speaking to him again

DishingOutDone · 28/10/2018 15:07

grief manifests itself in different ways - yep, sometimes it manifests as a new kitchen and bathroom, sometimes a nice cruise or a new car ... Hmm

SushiMonster · 28/10/2018 15:08

I dont have children and I have a will. 50% of my estate goes to my parents. 25% to my sibling and 25% to my nieces/nephews.

I have a clause that if my parents are dead then it’s split 50/50 sibling and the kidos.

derxa · 28/10/2018 15:10

When people ask what the DF would do with the money I roll my eyes a bit. When my DM died, my DF bought a fecking racehorse (he was 80 and knew nothing about racehorses). And good on him.

Italiangreyhound · 28/10/2018 15:11

Condolences for your loss. I would certainly talk to a solicitor and find an amicable way. Your father is behaving appallingly.

If the money is for your parents could you mum pass on 'her' half and your dad may then realise the error of his ways?

Could the neighbour be a witness?

Dollymixture22 · 28/10/2018 15:26

I am sorry for your loss, and so sorry your dad is behaving like this.

I am sure your brother had every intention of making a will, but just never got round to it. I am in the same boat and this has made me act!

Your dad is being very selfish. He must realise your brother would not have intended all his money to go to his parents - in fact he would have expected to outlive them. It’s such a shame you dad is making this what his grandchildren will remember him for.

As others have said the ship has sailed, and this money is now your dads to do with as he pleases. In your situation I would write him a letter explains how you feel, and how sad it is that your brothers wishes aren’t being respected. Then see what relationship you want to have with your dad.

Dollymixture22 · 28/10/2018 15:27

I am sure you are also disappointed in you mum. She could give her half to the grandchildren and at least go some way to honouring your brothers wishes. Your greedy dad would still have enough to live the high life