Brother died intestate - disagreement over his estate

[Miggymoggymugwumps]

My beloved brother died very unexpectedly earlier this year, it was a huge shock and has been very hard to deal with losing him. For background he had a successful career, never married and at the time of his death was single with no dependents. Because he had no children of his own he idolised his nieces and nephews and was a huge part of their lives from the day they were all born. There are 4 of them and they are now all adults with the youngest being 18 and the eldest 32.(2 are mine and 2 are my sisters)

Anyway he always said (as you do at times) that if anything ever happened to him he'd leave something to me and my sister but that the bulk of his estate would be equally split between 'all the kids'. However it is now apparent that he never got around to making a Will and that he died intestate, so his next of kin become the beneficiaries. That is our parents and of course this is totally right and proper. Now everything has been settled his estate comes to a little over £400,000 which is obviously a vast amount.

This is were problems are now creeping in. My Dad who seems to have had a personality transplant now that he's come into money has decided to give the nieces and nephews just £5,000 each. Now I know this isn't to be sniffed at but I can't help feeling that it is a bit stingy bearing in mind just how much inheritance there is but most of all it is absolutely not what my brother would have wanted. Her always said he wanted them to benefit, and mentioned this on many occasions, to me, my sister, our parents, friends and even his next door neighbours. Even at his funeral close friends of his said that is what he wanted to happen.

My Dad says that because he didn't make a Will that the situation is different now and that the kids and us will end up with it all eventually anyway when him and Mum pass away. They are late 70's, and thankfully in good health but obviously may need care in the future which will need to be paid for. Dad says he's going to have their bathroom and kitchen done, have a conservatory, buy a new car and go on nice holidays.

I gently tried to explain that although my brother would have wanted them to enjoy themselves 'on him' and make their lives a bit easier his actual wishes about the nieces and nephews having it were getting forgotten. Dad doesn't seem to want to acknowledge this at all, my Mum agrees with us but can't get through to him either and it's starting to cause friction. If there is a solution please tell me as I just want to do things right by my brother!

I'm sorry for the loss of your brother.

It's understandable you're upset at your dad's choice, given your brother's wishes were widely known. I do wonder if pushing this is just going to cause even more upset. Expecting your mum to change a habit of lifetime over finances when she is also grieving the loss of her son is a lot to ask. Your dad may dig his heels in further - taking back the offer of £5k each or even changing his will to exclude you all.

By all means make your mum aware she could get independent advice of how she can manage her share of the inheritance.

Whose to know what would have happend had your brother lived a long life just becsuse he wasent married now doesnt mean he wouldnt have martied later in life and had children/step children he might have left his. money too, your Dads lost his son i cant imagine how awful it would be too lose a child , unfortunatley. Your brother didnt make a will and its your mum and dads money to do as they wish .

I think I'd work on your mother. She's the key to resolving this. Your df's plans for the money will benefit her as well. Presumably, your db would have liked them to benefit from his premature decease and enjoy a new bathroom and kitchen etc to make things easier and more enjoyable for their old age.

If your mother does a deed of variation in favour of her gcs, your db's wishes in regard to his nieces/nephews would also be respected free of tax and you and your sister would benefit vicariously in knowing that your dcs would be well provided for.

But 'late 70s' should sound a warning bell. No matter how hale and hearty they might be now, that situation could change overnight. Your dps should take independent advice from someone with the legal/financial expertise to consider all possible eventualities and work out what is best regarding future IHT and possible care costs.

I’m so sorry for your loss.

There is no solution here - only more grief. If your brother had really meant to give the money to his nieces and nephews he would have made a will. The fact that he didn’t shows it wasn’t an especially high priority for him. That’s normal given that his death was unexpected, so no blame here. But trying to convince your dad you’re right in a dispute over what your brother would have wanted will only cause heartache and misery for all, when you’re already grieving. Your dad likely feels as strongly as you do that he’s the one in the right, and just as he won’t convince you, you won’t convince him.

Try to forget there was ever any mention of money; anything else is a sure cause of misery,

It’s threads like this one that make me want to leave all my money to charity.

Seriously all this bickering over the assumed wishes of someone who is no longer here to speak for themselves and who clearly didn’t feel that strongly about what he wanted or he would have done something about it is in incredibly poor taste.

So what if he’d said that he would leave his money to the OP’s children? I don’t imagine he said it repeatedly given his death was unexpected, it was likely a discussion point over dinner one night,a sort of hypothetical discussion, but not really something he felt that strongly about otherwise he would have made a will to that effect and he didn’t.

And the truth is that no-one expects to die young unless they have a specific illness, but we are all just a car crash away....

It never ceases to amaze me how people talk about how strongly someone would have wanted something when they stand to benefit, but when they don’t..... e.g. when talking about opt-out for organ donation for instance the argument is often that if people feel strongly enough about not wanting to donate their organs they will opt out, if they don’t go to that effort they didn’t feel strongly enough and are fair game. Yet with a will someone clearly felt strongly about it and wanted it to happen, except in this situation he didn’t do something about it so ... clearly didn’t really feel that strongly about it.

None of this shows the OP in a good light at all. And while spending on a new bathroom and conservatory and holidays may seem a little crass from anyone inheriting an amount of money, the fact that this is what the money is being spent on doesn’t make the OP any more entitled to it.

And all those saying the OP should see a solicitor/never speak to her father again/turn on the emotional screws towards her mother,sense of entitlement is not an attractive trait.

Your DM could pass her share to nieces/nephews?

If your DB had felt so strongly about where his money would go, he'd have left a will.

The fact he didn't speaks volumes. He must have known that if he died unexpectedly the money would go to your parents.

Am so sorry for you loss love. Sometimes in grief, things are magnified and anger kicks in on all sides. I know this myself.

Your dear brother did not make a will. Therefore the estate passes to your parents. End of story.

Of course you feel that your parents should give your own children a chunk of that but there is absolutely no obligation on the them to do so.

My advice would be to ignore it and stay on good terms with your parents. They may change their minds down the road a bit.

Other than that, there is absolutely nothing you can do.

If the brother wanted his estate to go anywhere other than his parents he would have written a will to the effect. He didn't.

He repeatedly told his nieces they would inherit significantly when he hadn't even written a will. It is not unknown for people to do this for selfish reasons or gratitude and not follow through. It is, quite rightly, not a valid reason to contest a will either legally or morally.

Your brother left a mess, as far as your parents are aware he wanted to leave his money for them to enjoy as that is what was in place.

You should be respecting the wishes your brother actually left which is leaving his estate to his next of kin, not idle chat he had. Stop badgering your elderly parents for cash that is not yours.

The Dad isn’t disputing OPs brother’s wishes. He agrees he’d want the majority to go to the nieces and nephews. He even said they’ll get it eventually anyway.

So he know his son didn’t want him to have the money but is keeping it for himself anyway and is justifying it to himself by saying they’ll get it when he and his wife die.

Scummy to deliberately and knowingly go against the wishes of your dead son.

A will is the way to ensure that your wishes re inheritance are carried out after you death.

This sad story is quite simply an argument in favour of making a will.

Unfortunately this does show the importance of making a will. None of us know when we will go. Your father could vary the will but chose not to. I’ve seen it happen before. Sadly if your brother felt strongly about it he should have made a will.

I made one as soon as I had anything of worth, leaving to my brother not my parents and Made new wills upon marriage and divorce.

I always tell people to make a will, it makes everything so much easier for those left to deal with it.

I know it seems hard on the DC but nothing is ever yours til it’s in your hands.

I bet if the dad posted on here saying his son died without a will and he knew his son wanted to leave his money to his nieces and nephews, but as he hadn’t made a will he was going to keep it he’d be told he was being unreasonable.

I’m NOK for a family member who won’t make a will as the see it as tempting fate. I know who they want it to go to, but according to some of you I should just fuck off their wishes and keep it to myself?

Oh and just a little true story for you all.

Myself and DP (slightly older folk). We made mirror wills so that half of our estates goes to the surviving partner, and the other half amongst our nieces and nephews with a legacy to our siblings. All done, signed witnessed, great!

EXCEPT...... DP knew he had a child from when he was much younger. Child put up for adoption by the mother, this was thirty years ago. Despite much trying DP could not locate him.

Then out of the blue, contact was made. It was absolutely incredible, and made DP very happy, and me also. Said child has just had twin boys within the last year, and we were invited to the baptism along with the adoptive family. It was just so nice.

So now the dynamic has changed. We agreed to change our wills so that each partner gets a monetary amount. I will then leave the residue after legacies to my siblings, to my nieces and nephews. DP will leave me the same monetary amount, and the balance to his child, with legacies to nieces and nephews.

We each have our own houses owned outright in our own names, that will be sold after our deaths and the proceeds included in our estates.

We are individually financially independent thankfully.

Just shows. But I am very happy for everyone all round.

You've learned that your dad is a selfish jerk.

Sorry, OP.

That on top of your brother's death must be terrible for you and your sister to be dealing with.

ive had a will since being 20 and updated when children came along and so glad reading this

i get when people say the op should have a word with her mum but its not really realistic,they are an older generation and op has already said he is the man of the house so to speak

its going to be very akward to say the least for the mum to approach the dad on this matter,i cant imagine she will feel very comfortable asking this

Your dad is certainly selfish. Even if he insisted on keeping half, 200k would buy a car, kitchen, holidays, etc. It would leave 50k each for all his grandkids and lessen the chance of all the money disappearing on care home fees or inheritance tax.

How important is a will if you are married?

My friends brother committed suicide, unmarried etc. She was one of 5 children with both parents still living. I do know that she inherited enough to purchase a new home outright, retire, use some of it to generate an income and set some aside for the own son. I do not think there was a Will, just seems that her parent's chose to do the right thing.

Well the nieces and nephews are all adults - why would a 32 year old need it more than a 70 year old is probably what they're thinking.

Your parents are cliched selfish baby boomers.

The father didn't inherit under intestacy rules - the parents did, they inherited half each. So the mother can give away her share.

Inheritances are separate to marital assets so the father doesn't get to dictate what the mother does with her part.

In situations like this, there is usually differing opinions when money is on the table.

Your brother really should have made a will, even at work every few years we would get a form to fill out, in the event of our death how the death in service and pension should be divided up.

Sorry for your loss x

Cambalamb you should still have a will if married. Depending on where you live there will be different rules if you don't have a will but in England and Wales the spouse gets the first £250,000 in assets then any remainder is split equally between spouse and any children.

I tend to agree that if the brother seriously wanted his nieces and nephews to inherit, he would have made sure they did.

I've had wills since I was about 22, as soon as I bought a property, then on moving in with someone, then again on separating from him, so at age 50 I've had three wills so far.

People say stuff......they don't really understand what they are saying sometimes. But surely people know that for certain people to get something when you die, you have to write it in a will. The brother would have known this and chose not to make that provision.

I can't stand the thought of dying intestate. My parents don't need the money and they act as if my nephew and niece don't even exist, so I've left my money to them, including any life cover from pensions and employment.

Thanks Bats we must get round to it. What stops us is who to nominate as guardian for our DC(18 and 15).