Brother died intestate - disagreement over his estate

[Miggymoggymugwumps]

My beloved brother died very unexpectedly earlier this year, it was a huge shock and has been very hard to deal with losing him. For background he had a successful career, never married and at the time of his death was single with no dependents. Because he had no children of his own he idolised his nieces and nephews and was a huge part of their lives from the day they were all born. There are 4 of them and they are now all adults with the youngest being 18 and the eldest 32.(2 are mine and 2 are my sisters)

Anyway he always said (as you do at times) that if anything ever happened to him he'd leave something to me and my sister but that the bulk of his estate would be equally split between 'all the kids'. However it is now apparent that he never got around to making a Will and that he died intestate, so his next of kin become the beneficiaries. That is our parents and of course this is totally right and proper. Now everything has been settled his estate comes to a little over £400,000 which is obviously a vast amount.

This is were problems are now creeping in. My Dad who seems to have had a personality transplant now that he's come into money has decided to give the nieces and nephews just £5,000 each. Now I know this isn't to be sniffed at but I can't help feeling that it is a bit stingy bearing in mind just how much inheritance there is but most of all it is absolutely not what my brother would have wanted. Her always said he wanted them to benefit, and mentioned this on many occasions, to me, my sister, our parents, friends and even his next door neighbours. Even at his funeral close friends of his said that is what he wanted to happen.

My Dad says that because he didn't make a Will that the situation is different now and that the kids and us will end up with it all eventually anyway when him and Mum pass away. They are late 70's, and thankfully in good health but obviously may need care in the future which will need to be paid for. Dad says he's going to have their bathroom and kitchen done, have a conservatory, buy a new car and go on nice holidays.

I gently tried to explain that although my brother would have wanted them to enjoy themselves 'on him' and make their lives a bit easier his actual wishes about the nieces and nephews having it were getting forgotten. Dad doesn't seem to want to acknowledge this at all, my Mum agrees with us but can't get through to him either and it's starting to cause friction. If there is a solution please tell me as I just want to do things right by my brother!

I'm surprised at the number of people supporting the OP. Anyone who tries to override the correct legal destination of an inheritance other than their own is unreasonable, ten times so if trying to change it so that it directly or indirectly benefits themselves.

The situation is perfectly settled, no-one should be causing a stir by making even the most oblique comments about how other people spend their money.

You're a family grieving. You have lost a brother and your parents their only son. It's not money from a distant relative or someone they only contacted 3 or 4 times a year. You are all trying to cope amd come to terms with the shock and loss. Give your parents space this may be your fathers way of dealing with his loss. If it isn't then you decide where you want to go next but is it worth it? At the end of the day you would all rather the money was still in your brother's pocket and he was here. Your dad isn't showing his best light, and yanbu to be angry but grief does do awful things to people, as do wills.
Sending best wishes to you and your family.

@Plessis
I am quite unbelieving about this idea that young healthy people go around making it clear who they want to leave their money to.

Actually, I think the MORE we talk about this sort of thing, the better.

My niece and nephew know they are getting most of my estate, after a few individual bequests. They are both executors so it made sense to tell them. And I think we are way too shy about talking about finances in this country - if we talked about it more, these situations would be less likely to occur.

@Firesuit
I'm surprised at the number of people supporting the OP. Anyone who tries to override the correct legal destination of an inheritance other than their own is unreasonable

My dad varied my nan's will to divert some money to me and my brother - so he was unreasonable even though he didn't need the money himself (and adding to his estate would only increase future inheritance tax) and he knew my nan would be happy for us to have it?

Sorry for your loss but please tell me you and your sis have wills AND power of attorneys sorted??

Actually, I think the MORE we talk about this sort of thing, the better

Talk is cheap. Its actually making the will that needs to be encouraged

I can’t believe mourners at a funeral mentioned money.

Although I originally agreed with wanting the money to go to nieces/nephews, it’s not clear if OPs parents actually have savings/pensions etc.
If my DB passed away, I would want the money to help my DM. 70’s is a decade where I think health can decline a lot.

I would also encourage OP’s DM to stand up for what she wants - although I would feel really selfish saying you don’t deserve the money, give it to my kids.

Given care costs no one except the v wealthy can say they will definitely leave anyone anything!

I agree with PP who said follow intestate law, whilst I appreciate that can be hard to accept. Whilst OP seems so keen to follow her DB's "wishes", if his "wishes" had been expressed otherwise it's possible OP might not be so keen as she is now that these conversations she had had with him be followed so expressly.

I imagine it's far harder to grieve a child than grieve a parent no matter how old you are. Give your parents some time - their loss is greater than yours really. And if you really can't be more empathetic then regard their loss as your gain - you will no doubt inherit earlier from your parents than you might have done if your DB hadn't died too young.

Grief is a big killer after all.

When the OP disappears I always wonder if they’ve gone away to have a stern word with themselves (as I hope has happened in this case) or they realise they didn’t get the response they wanted.

Talk is cheap. Its actually making the will that needs to be encouraged

This, x100

DD's godfather is single and childless. When he became her godfather he asked all relevant details to add her to his will along with his godson. We will never tell DD until the time comes but he felt it important.

I don’t expect anything from my parents and encourage them to enjoy what they have. I think this situation is different though. The DF knows that his son wanted the money to go elsewhere but he is keeping it anyway. I think that’s selfish and unpleasant. It’s all very well for other posters to say it shouldn’t sour family relationships but really? If my DM/DF had done something similar, I wouldn’t be wanting to spend much time with them. For me, it wouldn’t be about the money itself but rather the selfishness and greed that they had shown and the disregard for everyone but themselves. I agree that grief hits people differently, but the sudden thirst for cruises etc is really distasteful.

He could still have a ball on 200,000 and give each grandchild 50,000 each - good house deposit.

VanGoghsDog Actually, I think the MORE we talk about this sort of thing, the better.

I agree. We have recently rewritten our wills. DCs (all young adults) know what is in them and have been told where they are filed so that they can look at them if they want to.

I would far rather this than be all coy about it. We have wills, life insurance policies, pensions with death in service benefit. In the event of our sudden deaths I dont want DCs to feel they have to take the house apart to find paperwork. Worse still would be for them to miss out on part of our estate because there was a policy they didnt know about.

The thing with situations like this is unless the person actually makes a will you never 100% know what they want. My great aunt has mentioned leaving her estate to me several times, but I know she's said that to my cousins as well. People's plans change so unless it's written down you just have to go with the laws of intestacy. All adults know this is how things work so if they don't actually bother to make proper plans you have to assume they don't mind it.

Your parents have lost their child. It's not a time to be giving them grief about wishes he didn't write down. It might not be morally right to many, but the man has lost his son - if you're not entitled to be alittle selfish or unreasonable then then when are you?

When my DB died at 32 the last thing we were thinking about was money. We were heartbroken.

Perhaps the OP's father has realised he could die any day, which is why he's so keen to enjoy things while he can, be it cruise/conservatory/car/kitchen. We still don't know anything about the parents' financial situation. Perhaps they had to scrimp and save themselves and see this as an opportunity to have a fling while they are still able to?

OP, it may not change your / your DD's situation, but I would recommend your DPs get independent financial advice, to avoid paying too much tax. Another danger is that if they blow £400K and then need care in a couple of years, they may be deemed to have deliberately deprived themselves of the funds - that would create real problems! Financial advice should allow them to take the most sensible course of action.

Sorry for your loss.

I'd wonder what the other side of this is.
I just wonder whether Op and sister rushed up to their grieving parents pushing for the money. Df was pretty hurt by their reaction because it was all about the money and responded with "I'm going to have my bathroom and kitchen done, have a conservatory, buy a new car and go on nice holidays."

The df certainly has been being pushed by op and possibly sister to give it up because they've discussed his handing it over. I wouldn't have thought that the conversation should have gone further than asking once.
I would have felt uncomfortable bringing it up, as I don't think there's a way you can do it without looking like you're after the money rather than respecting his memory.

The situation is perfectly settled, no-one should be causing a stir by making even the most oblique comments about how other people spend their money.

If I died and my parents knowingly disregarded my wishes I wouldn’t see the situation as perfectly settled. Not at all.

PPs have said grief can do strange things to people. Hopefully OPs dad will realise what he’s doing is wrong and respect his son’s wishes at some point.

A freind of mine is 73. He has just inherited some money fro his unmarried cousin. The difference this has made to him is huge. He was made redunadnat in his 50s and has been working in all sorts of jobs as he has gor older to keep himself. He was not poor but his savings have very certainly dwindled.

Finally he can relax. He can replace his ancient boiler that breaks down every winter. He can get a ew kitchen and actually get a shower put in and at last replace his twenty-year old rust bucket of a car that never gets through the MOT. He wants to go on holiday. He has seem many of his good frinds die - including his sister - and he wants to live while he still can. People seem to think that someone who is 70 is practically dead, definitely has dementia if they do anything you disagree with and has no right to live their own life.

My brother is in a similar position to the one the OP’s brother was in - single, no dependents, dotes on nieces and nephews and godchildren. My mum badgered him into making a will because she realised that if he died intestate, she would be his beneficiary and, in her words, she didn’t want the taxman having two goes at his money, given that she isn’t getting any younger. I agree everyone should talk about this stuff a lot more than they do.

@Plessis

You didn't bother to read my next sentence then?

heckypeck specracularly missing the point.The brother's wishes in the scenario of dying before his dps is unknown

Sadly because your brother didn't make a Will the relevant law applies. Your dad is perhaps being greedy and unreasonable but eventually the money will filter down to you and the DC.