Would you consider me transphobic?

[TheSkyisAlive]

First of all I believe that gender dysphoria is a mental illness and should not be treated with hormones and surgery. Having said that, it's their body and their choice and if that's what a person wants, they shouldn't face abuse or live in fear.

But just because you identify as a female does not mean you are one. Even after surgery.

You do not understand what it is like to be a female and the problems we face. You do not get to speak on behalf of women. You should not compete in female only sports.

Does that make me transphobic or simply someone who does not want the females to be second class citizens?

Yes, you are transphobic.

I’m with you. I don’t think our current thinking about gender dysphoria is good or healthy. I don’t think a man can become a woman or vice versa. However, if someone’s dysphoria is so great that the only way they can live their lives and have any chance at happiness is to transition, so be it. If an adult makes the informed decision to change their body via surgery and hormones, they have the right. They should not face discrimination in life or work because of this.

I don’t support self ID because I see this as dangerous to women and also to trans women. The real issues are male violence and rigid gender stereotyping. I see gender dysphoria as a response to the misery created by gender roles.

There are people who are truly transphobic. I am not transphobic. I want trans people to have rights and be treated well and with respect. That does not mean they get to take over the spaces and rights of born women. A person who is not a woman should not be a women’s officer any more than I should be a trans spokesperson.

My teenage dd would say yes you are.
I would say yes but only because of your lack of belief in treatment being allowed. It must be torture to feel you are in the wrong body. People are allowed to tattoo themselves, surgically enhance themselves, to change their appearance in a myriad of ways. I think transgender people should be allowed to alter their bodies to reflect their inner selves.

Most of the rest of what you say I agree with.

Unfortunately in the transgender debate if you try to defend women’s rights you are labelled transphobic. It’s a ploy which has made it very difficult for women to defend themselves.

@kalinkafoxtrot45 completely agree with your whole post!

I had no idea about labour’s women’s officer

It's transphobic to call someone transphobic for being concerned about women. Some transpeople are women. The people that say that the OP is transphobic are not considering them.

The OP is raising issues caused by ejaculators who claim to be menstruators.

I suggest you post about this on feminism board OP

Transsexual women in general also don’t believe they are able to literally change sex even after surgery. These are not the people pushing for changes and self Id. I am not against sex changes and hormones but think they should be chargeable so I don’t agree with your opinion there. I am totally against giving hormone blockers or selling lies to children under 18. I know I am considered by the trans allies as transphobic. I am not. I see protecting children a safeguarding issue.

Society of today holds far too much on “gender identity” and people should just be allowed to be, who they choose to be as long as they don’t encroach on others and forget the labels. But the TRA’s don’t want that because they are just another form of MRA’s.

You probably are, but I don't necessarily disagree with what you have said. I think gender dysphoria is an illness and should be treated in whatever way reduces the harm of that illness to those affected. If this means surgery, so be it. But I don't think women should be forced to accept men (those who have not fully transitioned) in their private spaces or in rape shelters and so on.

Actually BettyCrook I think the transgender debate shouldn’t be just relegated to the feminist section.

The worrying situation we find ourselves in is that our fear of being labelled transphobic or a feminist (!) stops women getting involved in these discussions. Now is the time for all women to get involved rather than when things have changed (‘but no-one asked me if I want all new office toilets to be built as gender neutral....’) and it’s too late.

Also, that treatment should only be available to adults.

No, not transphobic at all.

'Transphobic' covers such a wide range of possible beliefs that it's essentially meaningless.

Not at all.

I think treatment should be available if doctors recommend it as the best course of action. Otherwise YANBU. A woman is an adult human female a transwoman is an adult human male unhappy in that body and striving to physically present as an adult human female. As such they will meet nothing but politeness and support from me if they give me the same. Exceptions must be made for sport, refuges and safe spaces for girls there is no reason for either side to refute this other than sinister ones.

InfiniteSheldon

I'm not sure about that. If you are a person with gender dysphoria, being treated as male (for example, not being able to use female changing spaces) will be detrimental to you. It will be a constant reminder that you aren't "really" a woman.

Seems like a straight up conflict of interests to me. Not resolvable without someone being the loser. But I don't see why that someone should be vulnerable women, so I agree with you about the exception.

Stonewall says that cross-dressers are women and should therefore use female changing rooms and compete as women in sport. Anyone who agrees with this needs to give their head a good wobble.

TheSkyIsAlive No, you are not transphobic.

Seeing as you can be called transphobic for saying you don't believe humans can change sex, yeah you're transphobic. So am I, so is 99% of the population.

If you believed homosexuality was a mental illness that would make you homophobic so from your opening sentence, yes I'm afraid I do.

Not at all.

no, you are not transphobic, you are sensible. nobody can change sex, and feeling you are in the wrong body, similar to anorexics feeling fat, is a psychiatric disorder.

Sounds like we're all coming from the same opinion, for the most part. In my (H) opinion, woman = one of two biological sexes which is not changable. Therefore, I appear to be transphobic. Dear God.

@misscockerspaniel are Stonewall saying that those who cross dress on an ad hoc / part time basis are the actual 'other sex' when it happens, and therefore when they don't cross dress are 'the other'? Is this part of the gender dysphoria debate or does it surround fetishes? Genuine question by the way, and somewhat 'personal', due to a past partner's activity, which had a huge bearing on our relationship.

It's not gender self-ID I have a problem with - it's the idea that a person can change sex. I think gender is primarily a social expression, while sex is biological. I understand that there exist intersex conditions, but don't think that's relevant to gender self-ID. I think people should be able to express their gender any way they like. But a person recorded male at birth shouldn't be taking part in women's sport, or suing a rape crisis centre for not employing them.