Would you consider me transphobic?

[TheSkyisAlive]

First of all I believe that gender dysphoria is a mental illness and should not be treated with hormones and surgery. Having said that, it's their body and their choice and if that's what a person wants, they shouldn't face abuse or live in fear.

But just because you identify as a female does not mean you are one. Even after surgery.

You do not understand what it is like to be a female and the problems we face. You do not get to speak on behalf of women. You should not compete in female only sports.

Does that make me transphobic or simply someone who does not want the females to be second class citizens?

Yeah you're transphobic but you're in good company on mumsnet

Nope. You're just rational and have an evidence based argument.

Stand by for circular reasoning, zero ability to define terms and a sprinkling of ad hominem.

Of course not.

why are some people trying to compare being gender critical to being homophobic?

I don't want to book an appointment with a female nurse and find I'm seeing a man who is identifying as a woman.

I don't want to be in a communal changing room with someone with a penis.

I don't want to see women's sport becoming completely pointless as men who aren't good enough to complete against men at the top level decide they are women.

I don't want the safety vulnerable women and children in refuges to be compromised.

If that makes me transphobic then so be it.

I don't understand the comparison to homosexuality? They're completely different. This is to do with biology, not sexuality. I agree with the op.

And I do not think being gay is a mental illness, absolutely not.

Djnoun - I don't think it's weird at all. I think it describes perfectly why humans fear deviations from traditional norms. I think it's an inate fear, but not necessarily a rational one.

No, it doesn't describe that. The term uncanny valley was coined by Masahiro Mori to describe negative human reactions to artificial life-forms, eg: robots, computer game characters which have been designed to be so realistic they invoke a feeling of revulsion and nausea in observers. It does not apply to human reactions to other humans.

You are not transphobic. How is it that caring for the rights of women and girls is now a hate crime? The world has gone mad

No you're not transphobic, that word has frankly lost all meaning and is used as a way to silence debate.

Human beings cannot change sex.

Gender is an oppressive social construct.

Anyone with genuine dysphoria needs love and appropriate medical care including mental health provisions.

You wouldn't agree that an anorexic was obese and offer them a gastric band.

Sex based protections must remain in place and not be eroded.

For me aspects of what you’ve said would be transphobic and others seem logical. One of the things I don’t quite get about the debate is that mumsnet is generally thought to be left leaning. Chances are the posts here are more generous than the broader population would be which is why I’m slightly baffled by the rapid policy spread and the whole hatred towards ‘TERFs’ thing when most people are just pointing out some safeguarding issues. Just look at the wiki for Terf for example and it is so clearly biased I’m amazed it’s been allowed to stand.

This

Transphobic.

But as other posters have said - mumsnet is full of them so you'll feel like you have an acceptable view here.

OP Would you consider homosexuality to be a mental illness?

I don’t understand that line? If someone is homosexual, they require respect and understanding. Not medication and operations.

I think that there’s a lot of support needed for those who wish to change from male to female or vice versa. I do think the medical profession has a duty of care to ensure that individuals do not rush into these decisions.
I also think that the rise in the trans movement is a reflection of our society in that we do not allow children to easily express behaviour which doesn’t easily fit in the traditional “boy/girl” “pink/blue” boxes so people think there must be something wrong because they’re a boy who likes playing with dolls, for example.

There’s also the dangerous current of self-ID which serves no real purpose beyond shielding potential or actual sex offenders.

It’s an absolute mess and people - mainly if not always women- are shouted down for raising concerns which are perfectly valid and reasonsable. It’s like watching Donald trump blaming the media for the recent pipe bombs.

I feel a bit like you OP. I firmly believe and support someone can change their outward gender, their behaviours and interests/style but I don't think they can change sex.

If they were dug up 500 years later, they would be identified as their birth sex. So that's that for me.

As a victim of a very violent sexual assault it has changed my life completely. I go to female only swim sessions, my gym has a "ladies gym" and I feel safe in the ladies changing room. It would be very triggering for me to come out of the showers and see a male bodied man stood there. For context I couldn't even have sexual activity with my very own husband for some months after the attack I was so upset and scared of intimacy and also just the general appearance of a man. I had CBT and I have conquered most of these fears, but men I do not know naked and approaching me/looking at me even just smiling and making eye contact with me would cause unimaginable panic and chaos to start. It really wouldn't be a good experience for either part involved.

Self ID scares me, if someone has fully transitioned and appears to have outwardly female sex genitalia of be ok, but if a cross dresser or transvestite is able to access this space because on Tuesdays he is a she, I'd be horrified.

My life has changed so much as it is, and I just feel that it's going to have to change more.

I was attacked because I was a woman, I was too physically weak to escape and fight back, because I am a woman, I will now be pushed out further because I am a woman.

Just look at the wiki for Terf for example and it is so clearly biased I’m amazed it’s been allowed to stand.

I believe anyone gender critical has been ousted from Wikipedia!

There are people doctoring entries left right and centre, female academics are being particularly targeted. Any dissent is quickly muted.

Yes.

Being a woman isn't a feeling ffs. It's utterly bizarre to pretend otherwise and partake in a such a damaging lie.

Yes you are transphobic. Don’t worry, you’re in good company on mumsnet.

Transphobia is discrimination against trans people not thought crimes. You can believe whatever you want about trans people so long as you treat them with the same dignity and respect they afford you.

Anorexics feel torture living in their wrong bodies, but we don’t support starvation.
We don’t encourage people with other dysphorias to cut off the offending body part, however much torture it is living with the limb that feels wrong.

So why are we expected to create a fantasy land and play along with people with gender dysphoria, instead of helping them to love themselves as they are?
Are we not making people worse by encouraging the negative thoughts about themselves?

I’m not sure about the issue of treating gender dysphoria as I wouldn’t feel qualified to say how it should be ‘treated’ and can imagine feeling you are in the wrong body must be torturous, but I fully agree with your other views OP.

Calling the gender critical transphobic is a wilfully sweeping way of lumping them in with bigots who seek to actively persecute trans people and who therefore truly fit that description.

Yeah you're transphobic but you're in good company on mumsnet

This.

You have some valid points, particularly around female sports, but overall, yes.

I don't think you are transphobic.

There's a clear conflict of interest here.

I think women as the majority and the more vulnerable should get consideration.

Female spaces, sports etc should be for biological women only.

I find the idea that transphobia is the same as homophobia really odd, as the idea that a boy who isn't into manly 'boy' things must be a girl seems almost the definition of homophobia to me.

Anorexia is not at all a comparable analogy since it's a danger to life.