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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think my daughter shouldn't date her former tutor?

264 replies

trob22 · 24/10/2018 09:21

My daughter is 24 and recently finished a masters course. Now she is in a relationship with the tutor who was her personal supervisor, who is 30. She keeps saying that nothing happened until after she got her results so nothing inappropriate, now they are both adults who just happened to meet each other etc etc.... Even leaving aside the age gap, I think that is completely inappropriate for a tutor to even look at a student in that way, never mind to start dating them afterwards. There obviously must have been some flirtatious relationship between them when she was his student for them to start dating so soon after, which I think is horrifying. Is that unreasonable?

OP posts:
BlaaBlaaBlaa · 24/10/2018 13:45

@cory I was working as senior lecturer while doing my PhD and was supervising Masters students at the same time....as were many of my colleagues. not all universities require tutors to have doctorates.

BlaaBlaaBlaa · 24/10/2018 13:47

@distance at 30 it is entirely possible he's a permanent member of staff .....I know a number of lecturers who had permanent contracts and PhDs under their belt by 30.

DistanceCall · 24/10/2018 13:48

BlaaBlaaBlaa Wow! Was this in recent decades? Because, at least in my field of study, permanent academic contracts at 30 was something last seen in the 80s.

BlaaBlaaBlaa · 24/10/2018 13:56

Very recent and not unheard off currently in my university. I've only ever had a permanent academic contract. I was 34 when I started my academic career. I was appointed as a senior lecturer straight off ...

Goldenbear · 24/10/2018 13:58

YABU - I think it's an extension of the mollycoddling that is happening at universities. A PP referred to 'pupils' but they're not pupils, they're 'adults' that are old enough to determine their own friendships and understand whether they're being manipulated or exploited and if need be, do something about that. The age is relavant as adults that have experienced a bit of life, understand how the world works and friendships work are alot less likely to be 'vunerable'. Equally, a PP commented on the endurance of the tutor/students dynamic even after leaving university. I'm sorry but that comment does sound like it has been spoken by your typical 'self-important' Academic and is very far removed from reality.

I attended an evening class for the start of a professional course and found the tutor to be rude, overbearing and seemed to want to make me believe that I had an undiagnosed educational special need as I liked to fully understand how things worked and asked questions. He was inappropriate with some things he said to some of the other students but there was no vunerabilty on my part, being about 7 years younger than him and in my late 30's and having worked in situations where politics and power dynamics were very much at play, I could easily shut the whole dialogue down and not begin to entertain any of his observations of me as 'correct'. I was getting the highest marks in the class on all of the exams so his 'concerns' where having no impact on my work. Due to my age and experience of life/work I recognised him to be a disturbed and insecure individual. He'd asked a bit about ourselves at the start of the course and due to some of the computer programmes we were using he knew that my husband was an Architect, he knew that I was better educated than him as I was at evening classes for a completely different profession and frankly he seemed to have a massive chip on his shoulder about all this as he would manage to weave in jokes to class about me being 'settled', 'a mum' etc. I felt he wanted to belittle people all the time but didn't have much luck in doing so as we were very much 'adults'.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 24/10/2018 13:59

Wow, golden, you sound chippy as fuck.

Someone tried to help you by suggesting you might be entitled to more support, and you took it as an insult?

That's a really weird response.

Some of my brightest students have had educational special needs. Despite what you seem to imagine, there's nothing shameful in it and nothing wrong with a teacher suggesting it as a possibility.

Gabilan · 24/10/2018 14:14

he seemed to have a massive chip on his shoulder about all this as he would manage to weave in jokes to class about me being 'settled', 'a mum' etc

I'd let it go to be honest.

Goldenbear · 24/10/2018 14:16

It wasn't like that at all. I really can't go in to the details. He was very unprofessional with other people. He certainly was not trying to help them as he would approach people about their 'problems' in front of the whole class. To be honest, he seemed to really enjoy doing that, I was by no means the only one who had a perceived problem.

Goldenbear · 24/10/2018 14:20

'let it go'? Well I did when I was on the course but it finished last year. My point is by doing this to people, not just me, he just came across as very insecure and unprofessional.

Loonoon · 24/10/2018 14:23

My experience was not entirely dissimilar to Goldens. I went to uni as a mature student to gain a qualification in an area I had a great deal of experience in. I was much older than my fellow students (about the same age as my tutor) and with a lot of hands on experience in the field. Although I totally respected the tutor as a very well known expert in the subject I found myself at the receiving end of remarks about ‘enthusiastic amateurs’ and ‘bored housewives’ etc.

I still remember with pride the day he blindmarked an academic report I had submitted. I got a distinction and feedback said it was a thorough and professional review of a first class project . The look of surprise on his face when he realised that the amateur housewife was responsible for the whole thing still makes me happy in retrospect.

Happily for me this particular tutor was able to acknowledge his previous pre-judgement of me and apologise so it all ended well, but thank god for blind marking, without it I might not have done as well as I did.

Flynnshine · 24/10/2018 14:23

What age gap!? 6 years?
My DP is 10 years old than me, I met him when I was 28 and he was 38.
When I read your heading I assumed she was 18 or something (even then it would be unreasonable for you to get involved)
She's an adult, it's not like he has groomed her!

NowApparently · 24/10/2018 14:26

YABU. The relationship between a post-graduate and their tutor is vastly different from that of a minor and a teacher. They obviously share academic interests and I think she could do far worse than someone who challenges her intellectually.

Bluntness100 · 24/10/2018 14:34

Can you imagine being 24 and your mother trying to get all up in your love life and dictate who you dated.

If anything is horrifying it's that.

Gabilan · 24/10/2018 14:50

'let it go'? Well I did when I was on the course but it finished last year. My point is by doing this to people, not just me, he just came across as very insecure and unprofessional.

Sorry, Golden. It's just it was a bit of a rant! Some people are just unprofessional. And although academics can be of a certain type, having worked in several fields, including academia, I haven't found them to be any more self important than anyone else. i think people expect them to be and there is a definite anti-intellectualism in the UK that feeds this whole idea that academics must be snooty and self important, but the reality IMO is that they're a pretty diverse bunch and often quite down to earth, if eccentric.

LagunaBubbles · 24/10/2018 14:58

It's ridicolous that some people here are so quick to shout "creepy" regarding relationships, there is nothing creepy about 2 consenting adults aged 30 and 24 having a relationship at all.

longwayoff · 24/10/2018 15:00

Absurd.

eightoclock · 24/10/2018 15:20

Many universities have no rules about student/tutor relationships and it certainly does happen a lot. I don't think it's always wrong, but there is a concern about how it will pan out - can they become equals and will she still see him the same once they are, and the 'attractive tutor' situation no longer applies? If your daughter is independent minded and a strong character I think she will sort it our herself. If she's the type to get crushes on teachers and latch onto inappropriate people I'd be more concerned.

Hannnnnnnxo · 24/10/2018 15:23

Stop infantising your adult daughter - she’s 24, not 14. You need to stop being so bloody overbearing. You’re acting like she’s a 17 year old dating her pervy 42 year old ex maths gcse teacher - no she’s an adult dating someone 6 years older than her. It’s completely different

LRDtheFeministDragon · 24/10/2018 15:26

Many universities have no rules about student/tutor relationships and it certainly does happen a lot.

Shock Like where?!

I have never come across a university that wouldn't consider this to be an issue.

Gabilan · 24/10/2018 15:27

Many universities have no rules about student/tutor relationships and it certainly does happen a lot.

I'm not sure about that. The ones I've worked and studied in have made it clear that you cannot have a relationship with students whose work you are marking. It's also common for staff to have to inform a head of department if they are having a relationship with any student, undergrad or postgrad, regardless of whether they're involved with assessment.

Hefzi · 24/10/2018 15:27

Just wondering whether people realise, if she's an MA student who has just submitted, that will have been within the last 30 days...

As other academics on the thread have said, the age gap isn't the issue - the balance of power is. As her supervisor until, say, three weeks ago, he'd technically have been her first marker, so if he hasn't already recused himself, he will be facing some hard questions from his colleagues and potentially also a disciplinary. Universities are now shit hot on this sort of thing - in my previous institution, many of my senior colleagues were married to former students: where I am currently, they'd have you out faster than a ferret up a trouser leg if there was any hint of failing to disclose etc

We don't know, of course, that this bloke hasn't been completely kosher- but the timing, and the issue that Board of Examiners won't yet have taken place, leads me to wonder.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 24/10/2018 15:32

To be fair, hefzi, it could have been a 9 month MA course that finished last summer, and he might not be her marker.

But I agree - it's all pretty recent.

FoldyRoll · 24/10/2018 15:33

YABU. They're both adults.

Our next door but one neighbours; he was her tutor at uni. They are still happily married in their 70's. I only know that he was her tutor because my parents were also tutored by him at the same time.

Waspnest · 24/10/2018 15:48

We don't know what 'nothing happened' meant in this case. Does it mean they didn't kiss/have sex etc or does it mean that the daughter was treated absolutely the same as other students until the relationship started (very unlikely I reckon since it started so quickly after she finished)? Aren't other students with the same supervisor going to wonder if the daughter got preferential treatment or extra help? Anyway, doesn't look like the OP is coming back to clarify.

Hefzi · 24/10/2018 16:17

LRD I didn't realise that there's any of those about nowadays - where's the fun in wasting your whole summer doing "research" and having a mad panic in mid-September?! Yes, that would be an acceptably believable time lag.

I had a mad crush on one of my lecturers on my MA - looking back, I think it was just proximity: my actual supervisor was a lecherous fuckwit from whom I used to hide. I was too old for his tastes anyway - Praise the Lord - but it didn't stop him being oleaginous to a fault Hmm

I know people upthread have mentioned women they know who have had relationships with/married students - but ime it really is mainly the other way round: in 30 years since finishing my DPhil, I don't even know of anyone who has, never mind know them directly. To be fair, though, I'm in a male-dominated field, so my experience is probably not that representative.