to think my daughter shouldn't date her former tutor?

[trob22]

My daughter is 24 and recently finished a masters course. Now she is in a relationship with the tutor who was her personal supervisor, who is 30. She keeps saying that nothing happened until after she got her results so nothing inappropriate, now they are both adults who just happened to meet each other etc etc.... Even leaving aside the age gap, I think that is completely inappropriate for a tutor to even look at a student in that way, never mind to start dating them afterwards. There obviously must have been some flirtatious relationship between them when she was his student for them to start dating so soon after, which I think is horrifying. Is that unreasonable?

I didn’t say right of approval . Stop misquoting me

That’s what you’re taking about. You say you have the right to approve or not of your adult child’s relationship. You don’t.

Interesting that you seem to disagree with me and feel perfectly entitled to tell me. Even though i am a completely anonymous person online.

That’s how this website works.

While suggesting that I am not entitled to have a view ( which I don’t share ) on my children’s partners.

A view yes, right of approval, no. Just like you don’t have to like your neighbours husband, but you don’t get to approve or not. Would you say you don’t approve of your neighbours marriage?

Sorry but I don’t care about your approval or lack of it of my opinions.

I haven’t offered any approval.

People have opinions. They won’t all be the same as yours. Some of these people will be women and some will be old. Get over it.

Again, nothing to do with your sex or age. (Neither of which I know) solely your attitude.

Diljlr that and younger It really does seem young, but actually I was an accountant well before then and mentoring the ‘young ones’ so it’s really not...just not the image of a ‘ttutor of a masters’ my mind conjures up I guess.

Totally inappropriate if she were 14 and he 20. However are talking about consenting adults here. I hope your dd has reminded you she isn’t 14!

YABU op.

BTW, there is a difference between approving something, and approving of something.

(Dis)approving your daughters relationship - allowing it to happen or not.

Dis(approving) of your daughters relationship - having a positive or negative opinion of it.

There seems to be some confusion here.

I don't think people are saying others aren't allowed an opinion. Just that they don't get a say as to whether or not it happens.

Of course it would be inappropriate if he had flirted with her when he was in the position of her tutor. As LRDtheFeministDragon says, it is a dependent relationship. A tutor has power over a student, it is very easy for a student to get the impression that sleeping with her tutor might improve her mark or get her extra support, there are all sorts of potential for abuse here, which is why we are ABSOLUTELY NOT ALLOWED TO DO THAT. Flirting with a student would be a disciplinary offense at most universities.

To be fair, you don't actually know that he did. It would be a bit difficult if nobody was every allowed to date somebody they had ever taught at any time in the past. At some point you stop thinking of them as your former students. I have former students who are considerably further ahead in their academic careers than I am, as well as considerably older, and it would be a bit weird to think of them as still dependent on me.

The important thing is the time gap: one would need to absolutely rule out the possibility that he let his feelings be known or accepted any attentions from her before she had graduated and was well away from his position as her tutor. Because anything else IS NOT ON. Tbh under the circs I'd probably be suspicious too.

Personally in her shoes I'd be checking out whether he has form for this because there are quite a few out there who find a fuck-buddy in the current cohort and then pass on them when fresh choices arrive. And you know what?? In all my years in academia I've seen countless instances where male academics screw students or ex-students and only one where a female academic has fucked a male student (and that didn't end well either). I've also seen women fall hard for male tutors only to be left high and dry without support of any kind when he moves on - and this is often after she has been his unpaid research assistant, carer for his children and do-er of his domestic labour while he polishes his career.

You are being ridiculous.

Lots of tutors at uni are PhD students themselves, so possibly only 3 years older than their tutees. Or a postdoc for a masters student, so could be 25 upwards. It also depends on what the tutoring was - a weekly session for an hour isn't a particularly close relationship whereas your supervisor working in a lab with you full-time for a year becomes very close and it's more important to have clear boundaries at the time and may be harder to embark on a relationship of equals after.

24 - 30 is not a significant age gap.

However, I do understand your point about him being her tutor. He must have been attracted to her whilst she was his student and therefore he may have been biased towards her and there could be a power dynamic in play which may not end well if she advances in her career.

He may be a perfectly nice man and it may be a lovely relationship but I have quite a cynical and bitter view of Tutor/student relationships based on my own experiences.

At the very end of my MA, the Head of my department started to make sexual comments and become touchy feely with me. About six months into my course I’d been forced to divulge some personal issues that were affecting my course and he “took me under his wing” so to speak and I had trusted he was acting in my best interests. He arranged weekly one to one hour long tutorials, almost like counselling sessions with him where he effectively brainwashed me into believing all sorts of shit about myself. He always told me I was especially talented and I stupidly believed him. By the end of the course he started offering me work which I saw as being a result of my hard work and “talent” but it soon became apparent he expected a relationship and sexual favours. I felt really betrayed and stupid. He was almost 20 years older and there was a huge imbalance of power. He’d frequently make comments about his status in the industry and how he could speak with his connections and ensure we “never worked again” if he didn’t like our attitude/behaviour/work ethic. I later found out he’d been targeting young vulnerable female students for sexual relationships for many years and had perfected his routine of gaining their trust then pouncing right at the end of the course. He was doing this to undergrads as well as postgrads and often several at the same time. No one spoke out over fears for their careers and what people would think of them. Luckily, I didn’t have sex with him, he completely repulsed me but his actions did have an impact on me.

He was quietly asked to leave after a student reported that they’d been having sex whilst he’d been assessing her but he secured a job at a University soon after where he probably continues to do the same thing.

I’m now a University Tutor and the idea of getting into a relationship with one of my students isn’t something I entertain. My professional reputation and my job are hugely important to me and I do think it’s wrong to get into a relationship with a student.

Was he her tutor as in he was running the course and marking her exams, or did he supervise her for small group work to go through material in more depth? The latter is usually done by people who aren't actually in any position of power over the titres at all, merely peers from the department maybe a few years ahead.

Not creepy at all. Not much of an age gap either imo. Please let her be the adult that she is, OP.

I do actually think at 24, seeing someone who is 30, is quite a gap. There can be a lot of living, changing & growing in those 6 years, which does tend to slow down a bit when you get to 30. Most people are more ready by then to be ‘settled’. So, I might talk with her about how she thinks this might affect the plans she had for the next few years, especially if her plans had been to travel or take up career opportunities elsewhere and yes, I’d mention the fact that they had a connection while he was her tutor and that might be part of the appeal for him ‘being looked up to’ and that might be something he either expects in their relationship or looks for elsewhere.

But at 24 that would be a very much adult conversation, the same I’d have with a friend.

I think it would be different if he had been her 6th form teacher and she had just left school, but in this case, I can't see a problem.

horrifying Really?

Your ADULT DD has told you about this relationship and that it started recently, after her studies ended. Yes, they probably fancied each other but nobody can legislate against that. If the relationship started afterwards then no rules broken and nothing for you to get all pearl clutchy about.

Age gap? She is a 24 year old woman dating a 30 year old man. You aren't serious?

Flirting with a student would be a disciplinary offense at most universities

^ This.

LRD It was a work related course so quite a few of the personal tutors weren't academics or working for the university in other roles; they were people working in the same field who had done that particular qualification a year or two before hand. Their main job was sometimes the same job as the students (eg. nursery manager, primary school teacher). Of course we respected them and asked for their advice as you do a more experienced colleague/work supervisor but I think the power relationship felt very different and more 'teachery' when I was an undergraduate.

My lecturers felt 'teachery' but none of my tutors were lecturers iirc.

Gah, I always try to write short posts and then they are always long waffley paragraphs

Happened when I was at uni, with bigger age gaps. I can remember one friend having an affair with a married tutor

Not university but college so not quite the same thing. There was one staff member who wasn't a tutor but he had a right reputation for his antics with a certain group of the students. Sometimes he'd attend evening functions and hed be surrounded by these girls and dancing with them-looking like a complete tool

The 'age gap' isn't an issue. My partner is ten years younger than me!

The circumstances of their relationship might be an issue, if it began when he was her tutor. (Which it sound like it didn't, or not that they would admit.) Most universities will have a code of conduct about relationships that cover whether issues like, abuse of power imbalances. You could check out the one for her university.

She may never forgive you though! Wouldn't it be better to honestly raise your concerns, if you need to, with her? But ultimately it may not help and might alienate your relationship with her.

What a strange thing to worry about. I did professional exams and the students were often similar age to the tutors, some older due to the nature of the course. It wouldn't have been inappropriate to have had a relationship with them once the course was over. Totally different if they are still on the course or a lot younger but 24? Nah it wouldn't even register. Under 20 I would probably be a bit more concerned even though 11 years isn't a huge gap in normal circumstances.

None of your business.

To add to the majority opinion here, she was a grown woman when she met him not a child. The age gap is not that great. And a supervisor on a Masters is not a ‘teacher’ in a position of authority and trust over a young person in the way a teacher in a school is. Their responsibility is strictly limited to academic guidance, there is no pastoral role to be misused.

I think you have to let it go OP.

I tinkering it is like work in many ways - relationships between people at different levels in the same reporting get line are forbidden with us, and that's because of the power imbalance, which is the same reason that student/tutor relationships are banned in most universities. If you want a relationship, one of you should change jobs first.

I can understand the OP's discomfort - not on the age gap; if she'd met a 30yo IT worker down the pub, that would be fine. But because of the student/tutor relationship - I'd be easier with that if she'd waited at least a year before they got it together.

And of course, there are plenty of relationships between staff and students, and in workplaces between managers and workers, and sometimes, they work out. But that doesn't make it a good idea in general, because of that power imbalance.

And I agree with those wondering if he sees fresh targets every new intake. He might not, but there are plenty who do, - if it never happened, you wouldn't need rules against it.

Don't think there's anything you can do, though, given that it didn't start till after she completed the course and she's an adult.

Seems to work for Macron

Their responsibility is strictly limited to academic guidance, there is no pastoral role to be misused.

This is not true. Not at all.