to be thrilled that not one anti-trans activist was voted onto my school board

[ItLooksABitOff]

In spite of the best efforts of some on MN and various right-wing Christians.

AIBU?

[Blanchedupetitpois]

self ID is to allow anyone under the trans labor to have the same access as a transexual with a GRC.


Nope nope nope. This is NOT what’s happening.

Self ID is about making the process of obtaining a GRC more simple and less expensive.

It does not give trans people any more rights than they already have. It just makes it less bureaucratic to access those rights.

Trans women have been able to use women’s bathrooms and changing rooms since 2010, regardless of whether they hold a GRC or not. Self-ID changes nothing in respect of the rights trans people have to use the facilities of their acquired gender.

[FekkoTheLawyer]

Self ID would cause more harm than good.

[FermatsTheorem]

Blanched - in that case, perhaps you can explain how the new process will be able to stop someone like Karen White legally changing his gender? I would love to believe the "just an administrative change" line, but I want to know how it will work in practice. How will the system sort out the genuinely trans from the piss-takers and predators? Presumably, as a strong advocate for the change, you can tell me how this will work and set my mind at rest.

[DopeyDazy]

half term here is it same in US

[jellyfrizz]

It does not give trans people any more rights than they already have. It just makes it less bureaucratic to access those rights.

So what rights are we talking about here that will be less bureaucratic to access but that people already have?

[CaptainKirksSpookyghost]

Nope nope nope. This is NOT what’s happening.

Yes it is. It's removing the need for medical involvement so those normally refused for a GRC can get one.

[NotMeOhNo]

Captain Kirk recently it was revealed that a paedophile got a GRC while in jail. So it doesn't gatekeep.

[FekkoTheLawyer]

It would allow a bloke with a penis to be declared a woman. Next step, erasion of past records (including criminal records).

Kids who may well be gay being given drugs that cause lifelong physical and mental damage (when there's a good change they were just boring old gay or bisexual in the first place).

What could possibly go wrong?

[CaptainKirksSpookyghost]

Blanchedupetitpois
Have you actually read up on the changes?
If it takes away medical involvement anyone will be able to get a GRC by filling in a form, regardless of gender disphoria.

And no, you legally need a GRC at present to be recognised as the opposite gender.

[Blanchedupetitpois]

How will the system sort out the genuinely trans from the piss-takers and predators? Presumably, as a strong advocate for the change, you can tell me how this will work and set my mind at rest.

Or you could tell me what’s stopping them now? Since you don’t need a GRC to access the women’s bathroom tell me why these predators aren’t already doing it? If a GRC doesn’t give you access to any space you aren’t already entitled to under the Equality Act, why would any predator bother with one?

[CaptainKirksSpookyghost]

Captain Kirk recently it was revealed that a paedophile got a GRC while in jail. So it doesn't gatekeep.
So instead of learnung from and fixing the gate we should take it away?

[FekkoTheLawyer]

Men of Britain! Say you are female all you like - but it doesn't make you a woman.

Gender is not sex! Get over it.

[CaptainKirksSpookyghost]

Since you don’t need a GRC to access the women’s bathroom

You do.

[FekkoTheLawyer]

Captain Kirk? Trawler captain or Enterprise captain ?

[CaptainKirksSpookyghost]

The EA hasn't changed yet.

[Brokendown18]

Or those who wouldn’t have even applied before as they don’t actually believe they are a woman but just fancy intimidating women by entering their spaces and getting off on it.
And those who don’t even need to self id as our sex based boundaries are so broken that women don’t even question a man’s right to be there.

[CaptainKirksSpookyghost]

football captain

[CaptainKirksSpookyghost]

If this apparently changes nothing, why the push to get it through?

[Blanchedupetitpois]

If it takes away medical involvement anyone will be able to get a GRC by filling in a form, regardless of gender disphoria.

This is exactly why I’m so in favour. Medical involvement shouldn’t be needed. Trans people aren’t ill.

And no, you legally need a GRC at present to be recognised as the opposite gender.

Trans people do not need a GRC to use the facilities for their acquired gender. They have been entitled to use the facilities since 2010 regardless of whether they have a GRC.

[AlphaBravo]

Tiny Tim has come out to play again, has he?

Must be half term 🤷🏼‍♀️

[CaptainKirksSpookyghost]

Trans people do not need a GRC to use the facilities for their acquired gender. They have been entitled to use the facilities since 2010 regardless of whether they have a GRC.

And yet these is a push together this through even though it makes no difference.

[Blanchedupetitpois]

You do.

You literally don’t. On this particular fact you are simply wrong.

If this apparently changes nothing, why the push to get it through?

Because it matters enormously to trans people. It is important to them to have their gender legally recognised, even if it doesn’t lead to any additional rights.

[CaptainKirksSpookyghost]

This is exactly why I’m so in favour. Medical involvement shouldn’t be needed. Trans people aren’t ill.

Neither are autistic people, but they still have a doctor diagnose them.

[dontalltalkatonce]

So why not go onto Canadian MN and party over there? You're like, 10,000 miles away.

[FermatsTheorem]

At the moment, I would say "social pressure" is what's stopping them for the most part, but that is rapidly being eroded (see, for example, Travis Ablanza and the Top Shop changing room debacle - Travis is a non-binary individual who has tweeted about how much they enjoy going out dressed as a "sexy teen").

At the moment, we don't have (as has happened in the USA and Canada) cases of trans-identifying people with penises in communal open-plan changing rooms, but again, this appears to be down to social pressure. Up until very recently women could have objected and known that the law was on their side - now it is becoming very doubtful whether, say, a gym chain would actually be prepared to invoke the provisions in the Equalities Act (and various people have spoken openly about how the Equalities Act is the next piece of legislation on the list for change after "streamlining" of the GRA - it looks suspiciously like "rubber stamp the changes to the GRA by claiming it's just an administrative change, then alter the Equalities Act so the protected characteristic is gender identity in place of sex.")

So - at the moment do you think I would be within my rights to complain to the management of my gym were a fellow gym user to strip off next to me in the changing room and reveal a penis? And will I still be able to complain if changes to the GRA go through?

At the moment, does Karen White have a case to go to court about being removed from a women's prison for sexually assaulting two of the women inmates? And if changes to the GRA go through, and Karen White wanted to go through the new streamlined procedure of applying for a GRC, what evidence could be adduced to show that Karen White was not in good faith?

I want to know how the law is going to protect the single sex spaces currently allowed under the Equalities Act. Just hand waving and waffling doesn't cut it - I need to know the actual legal criteria (or to have someone have the balls to say "Actually there are no such criteria, haven't been since the GRA was passed, you've all been duped and single-sex spaces ceased to exist legally right back in 2003, just no-one noticed because it was all done under the radar.")