To think that trans people should use the disabled toilets ?

[PerverseConverse]

Actually it's not me that thinks this but this is what is currently being argued on Facebook.

Disabled facilities were hard fought for and I don't think they should be used by anyone else. However I'm not sure what the solution is but it's definitely not to use the disable facilities.

These are examples of what has been said:

"Personally, I believe that if a transgender person passes as the gender they have transitioned too then I have no problem with sharing a toilet with them cuz I wouldn’t be able to know whether or not they were transgender but if the person looks like a man in a dress and heels, I’m sorry but they should use the disabled toilets. There is a reason for this, the women’s toilets is a safe space for biological females. That includes sexual assault victims who suffer with PTSD. It may not bother all victims but it may cause detrimental effects on others and we should take into consideration the mental health of those victims thus I say give transgenders access to the disabled toilets so that they don’t cause anxiety and distress for trauma victims. That is reasonable is it not?"

And:

"What is wrong with using the disabled toilets anyway? People often use them when the cue is too long for the regular toilets but now people have a problem? I believe it to be a very reasonable request and I have known transgenders male to female who have requested to use the disabled toilets for the very reason of they were thinking of those that had been traumatised by men. They did that of their own choice and were being considerate towards others and I applaud them for it. They have said that once they look more feminine, they will consider using the women’s toilets but only once they look like a woman.
The difference between those that look like a woman and those that don’t is that, unless you look at their medical records, you can’t tell that they were born a man and thus, it doesn’t cause anxiety as you pass them in the toilets but someone who is quite obviously was born a man could do that.
It is not an unreasonable request in order to ensure that everyone is comfortable in their environment and thus, no one has to suffer anymore than they already are psychologically. I believe there is nothing wrong with a transgender using the disabled toilets, we expect the disabled to go into a totally separate room instead of sharing with the rest of their gender so why is it now so unreasonable asking that transgenders do the same.
However I believe it to be unreasonable to ask a PTSD victim to be put into a situation that makes them feel uncomfortable. I also believe that it is unreasonable to request a transgender male to female to use the male toilets. Thus, do give me a solution that would not potentially cause someone to suffer psychologically that isn’t the use of disabled toilets"

I'm too tired to even begin to argue with this viewpoint right now.

It's from Posie Parker's Facebook review yesterday. Not sure the link will work but :

m.facebook.com/greenhousedeptford/

You'd have to scroll to her review.

I don’t think they should use the disabled toilets.

But I don’t know what the answer is. I have a 3 year old and a baby and it frustrates me endlessly when we go out and end up using the disabled toilets because that’s where the baby change is, or I feel that I can’t leave the pushchair safely anywhere, depending on where we are. If baby has done an explosive nappy requiring an outfit change that can easily take 5 minutes, by which time someone who is disabled could be desperately waiting outside.

It just makes me think, if I as an able bodied young woman can find using toilet / change facilities so inaccessible then surely it’s ten times worse for those who are disabled. I wouldn’t support anything that means they have to wait even longer to use the facilities that are designed for them.

I hate radar keys, they’re so big and clunky!

Men abuse and rape women and children wherever they have access, we know this. Priests, TV presenters, sports coaches, we know this so WHY WHY WHY are men being given access to women in prison and hospital. Pop on a dress, call yourself Karen and rape at will.

Switched to BBC news earlier and caught the second half of an interview with Simone Biles, peppered with film of her doing the most amazing gymnastics. Googled her afterwards, and find she's yet another one abused by that shitty coach. How can men not see that girls and women are abused all the time even in circumstances where there's supposedly safeguards in place? And they think we should remove all safeguards because 'it would never happen'! Of course it will.

My original health authority didn't hand them out, even when I finally got my dx of ms, and at no appt after either. There was a shopping mall just down the road from the hospital which required a radar key for the disabled loo, or to get a security guard to come and unlock it. Even asking the hospital, the ms nurse, the ms physio and any other related person I saw including midwives and hvs, none had any idea where a radar jey could be got from.

We don't seem to have radar keys in this county so I'd only need one when returning to visit friends in my old authority. I'll ask my new ms nurse and see if she has any idea about them when I next see her though.

It would be very typical if she just handed one over. The HA in the county which requires radar keys has no idea where you can get them, and the HA where you don't need them hands them out like dandy to a baby.

Buggerbrexit people disabled with arthritis etc., find the larger keys easier to handle, partially sighted can find them easier.

I agree they're a pain if you don't need such a large key, but it's a small price to pay for the convenience to others.

Jux you can buy the originals from Radarkey.org. Some of the cheaper knock-offs don't work.

I bought mine. I've never heard of them being given out.

Jux, got mine from the main council offices. Had to show my DLA (now PIP) certificate. Small cost, about £3. Quite big and heavy though, bit of a bind.

No the problem is that we don’t have enough unisex toilets.

I don't think non disabled people should use disabled toilets at all, especially just because there's a queue in the Ladies. Selfish really, what if disabled people are then having to queue because the selfish person is in it? When posters openly admit to doing this I always feel as though I don't count at all. (I don't mean baby changers of course)

Thankyou for being so thoughtful cadburyegg. Your kindness means a lot.

It seems strange reading posts from people judging whether non disabled should use my/our public toilets? Weird.!

Sarahjconner, have already done mine. I did it through the quick link, is that the one you've put there?

CrOcOdile20. I've often wondered how many posters have actually met or worked with a transperson? I have and the first point is that they are generally nice people. No one's saying they're not? But there will be some collateral damage victims from men falsely claiming to be transwomen. It's unavoidable and people are sick and tired of having to explain it over and over. Seems like you're "alright Jack" though, so I can't even be bothered.

Here in California, we don't have disabled toilets, we have accessible toilets. Sometimes accessible toilets are the only toilets. Usually they are a larger cubicle in a regular toilet. Sometimes the ladies only has accessible cubicles.

At my work the majority of the toilets are individual accessible unisex ones. If you only used the non-accessible ones you would have a situation where about 30 men shared a single toilet.

I think our law now is that all single user toilets are unisex.

I think it makes things easier for transgender people.

paffuto I can't believe the amount of people who do either. My local Tesco does say on the disabled loo that not all disabilities are visible which is very true. Unfortunately people will abuse that.
Disabled facilities are usually pretty disgusting in my experience. Water or urine on the floor, toilet, faeces splattered everywhere. Some conditions make toileting very difficult and accidents happen. It must be very embarrassing to have an accident and not be able to clean up due to lack of physical ability and/or cleaning items. Some people are plain disgusting though and don't care how they leave a toilet. I doubt that they are cleaned thoroughly or regularly either which doesn't help. More cleaning staff are definitely needed.

John Lewis seems to be the best provider of toilets ime although no unisex ones that aren't disabled or parent and child. Most places seem to put the baby change in the disabled loo but I think they should be separate where possible, in new buildings for example.

As a single mum with a child in a buggy and two other children I find getting everyone to the loo really difficult and the disabled is the only one I can get the buggy into in many places. However I have realised that the bigger cubicles in Tesco are probably for those with buggies so will use those now. A sign in the door would help!

In terms of a fourth/fifth (?) space for trans individuals then I can't see that businesses are going to spend huge amounts of money on accommodating 0.7% of the population who have gender dysphoria. They should just use the ones appropriate for their sex.

Totally agree PerverseConverse, it's awful having to take kiddies and babies into mucky toilets. And no, I can't see companies willingly paying for extra toilets either.

I get why they’re clunky, I wish a shorter version you could put on a key ring was available though.

zzzzz, maybe it's just me. I think of the disabled toilets as just for disabled people (and baby changers) and feel insulted when posters kind of off- handedly say, oh just send the transpeople to the disabled loo because we don't want them in the ladies. Too sensitive maybe but its as if I don't count?

Exactly paffuto - that’s what I meant by pass the parcel!

Companies are not going to want to dedicate space to trans people for toilets nor will they want to pay for cleaning them etc.

Changing the ladies to unisex is easy because they have individual cubicals. But logically the gents is the one they should change.