To feel like I’m being gaslighted by counsellor and ex

[DiaryStrife]

Divorced for 7 years. 4 DC. He is remarried.

We’ve had ongoing issues between us for years and in an attempt to fix them so the DC weren’t growing up in a hostile environment we agreed to go to family counselling (him, his wife and me).

One of the main issues is this: we have an online family diary which I am the admin of. Everyone has access to it. I upload all appointments, parents evenings, after school activities, trips and parties to the diary. They are colour coded so everyone knows who is involved in that activity etc etc. We also enter holidays and nights out etc.

Ex frequently forgets or doesn’t turn up for things in the diary. His argument is that I could remind him 48hrs beforehand with a text message. My argument is I’m not his wife, it’s in the diary, he can check and remind himself. He runs a successful business and seems to remember to go to work/quotes and meetings so I don’t see why this is so much hassle.

Counsellor asked me why I didn’t feel it was fair to remind him, I explained, counsellor then says “the thing is we are at an impasse here and someone needs to compromise”

I said it wasn’t going to be me and it was ridiculous that he expected me to do this.

Ex is saying “you see, you see how impossible she is”

And the counsellor is nodding his fucking head!

The sesson ended with me being asked to reconsider my position and come back this week to discuss the issue of why I was so “angry” about this. Was this really where I wanted to “plant my flag”

I feel like I’m going mad ffs.

Please tell me honestly if you think I’m being unreasonable

So, next session:

Yes Counsellor, we have reached an impasse, and compromise has been made by me.
I currently do all the running, I fill in the diary, I send reminders for maintenance, I tap dance around to facilitate exH, and still I am being told I'm not doing enough.
So, would it be better to delete the app?
ExH can fill in his own diary.
CMS can take the maintenance from his account, and it will be his responsibility to make sure he has adequate in the correct place.
He can explain to disappointed DC when he hasn't bothered to check the diary.
If he wants to be regarded as an equal parent he can do equal legwork.

OR
I can continue filling in the diary and he can remember every day that he has four children and check the bloody app.

I wonder if his wife is there to work out why he wants to be in contact with you so much!

He wants you to text him daily, update his calendar and request money weekly. Surely the point of divorce is stopping daily and regular contact. Plus you cause friction in his house. Has he actually moved on?

What happens when he refuses to let his 16 year old visit friends?

Cancel the calendar and the counselling. Next call should be CMS.

As a family therapist myself I am irate that you should have had this response, family therapy has a strongly feminist ideology and this is not in line with it.

I would encourage you to bring it up at the beginning of the next session, that you feel pressured by both ex and the councillor to be responsible for a disproportionate amount of the mental work for managing the children's diaries, and that this is both unfair and a poor example of gender roles to show the children. Don't send any bloody emails! Hopefully the councillor will clarify that they definitely don't support this (it is possible that what they said was just poorly phrased rather than misogynistic) but if they don't then I would stop seeing them and make a complaint to either their head of team (if they have one) or AFT (the regulatory body).

God almighty, I hope you're not paying to be treated like that.
Having said that, I wouldn't say it's unreasonable to flag up things added at short notice, say 3 days or less. The rest he should obviously be responsible for looking at himself.

I don’t think the councillor or ex behaving very well here. But....

It’s very easy to set up a google or iCal diary he can either subscribe to, or that you can send home ‘invites’ to events - if he accepts they end up im his own online diary - presumably with the rest of his life. I send invites to DP for kids events and when I set them up I add an alert the day before.

I would encourage you to bring it up at the beginning of the next session, that you feel pressured by both ex and the councillor to be responsible for a disproportionate amount of the mental work for managing the children's diaries, and that this is both unfair and a poor example of gender roles to show the children. Don't send any bloody emails! Hopefully the councillor will clarify that they definitely don't support this (it is possible that what they said was just poorly phrased rather than misogynistic) but if they don't then I would stop seeing them and make a complaint to either their head of team (if they have one) or AFT (the regulatory body).*

This, in spades and stop bloody telling him about all the appointments! He does not need to know the minutiae of their lives when you are primary care giver. As for the next time he stops your dd socialising, then she doesn’t have to go to his next weekend. Vicious but simple. He doesn’t get to control her too.

Can you send him a reminder each day that he is a cunt?

Monday - cunt
Tuesday - cunt
Wednesday - still a cunt .......

Seriously, go through CMS. They can access his actual income via HMRC live data.

If he's on PAYE and is fibbing about his earnings he won't have a leg to stand on, maintenance payments will be deducted from his salary at source. Self employed is much harder sadly.

He will be charged 20% on top of his payment and you will be charged 4%.

I used to audit CMS. They now have the power to put a note on an individual's credit reference file that will bugger up their credit reference where they don't pay the CM that they owe. How sad, never mind....

I'd actually ask for an appointment on your own and put out your stall and how sexist this is.

Oh and I'd quite happily delete the app and go to CMS. You are not his wife -and even if you were -no wife should be expected to do this. I'd also put in a formal complaint - before to ask for another session.

i.e. I found the last session very controlling and bullying 3 versus 1 and you are facilitating this. I am not happy about the way this session effectively was trying to blackmail and bully me and I would like the next session on my own with you -to decide if I continue or not.

I too think you should talk to him one to one, purely because he is manipulated by your ex so absolutely no point talking with him there.

Then don't go back.

And make a complaint.

Wtf. Why would you do his wifework when you aren't his fucking wife anymore?

I'd tell them both to take a running jump.

I think you can safely say that you have reconsidered and are now quite solid in your own view of what is reasonable
1. You don’t feel angry, just bemused that anyone would presume that an ex would offer this level of service. And you are gob-smacked that the counsellor would seek to encourage him encroaching on your boundaries.
2. Ex-DH is an equal parent and must be prepared to do his fair share, saying he is busy is actually irrelevant. As an adult he must prioritize the children. He can get his other secretary to do that if it is too much bother for him.
3. Is he (ex and counselor) prepared to publicly defend his position. When they listen back to “You should and ought to give additional reminders to your ex husband because he cannot be bothered” how does that sound? Does counselor advise ex-husbands that they owe women this service.
4. You see it as a continuation of the dynamic which led to your divorce and are perplexed as to why the counselor would seek to facilitate it. Then ask him why he is facilitating it?

I have no experience (thank goodness) but this sounded like very good and sensible advice.

Also - I find it interesting that what your ex wants out of the the counselling is that you change your attitude (7 years after divorce!) and validate his self-image. Shouldn't that have set alarm bells ringing ?

Arghhhh this bloke is giving me the rage and I don’t even know him

Do you get anything out if the diary, is it useful to you? If not - delete it.

If your ex wants to know what’s going on at school he fucking well contacts school and arranged to get the info directly from there.

If he forgets and he needs clothes taking to school for him, he fucking well sorta it himself!

If he doesn’t pay maint in time, involve the cms

OP please, please , PLEASE , stop pandering to this man! You’ve been divorced 7 years, tell him to fuck off and sort his own shit out. If he won’t let his own dd go out then that’s his look out. No diary, no appointment, not relationship with his
Daughter. Why is it your fault if he forgets to look - Christ on a bike, get rid of him!!

How about you ask Siri (or equivalent) to set up a daily text message which reads:
'Look in the shared calendar you useless cunt'
I'm sure he'll find that very useful. Win win, he gets a prompt, you get to call him a cunt 365 days a year.

It's simple, explain to him and the councillor (in a manner you would to a small child who is being difficult)that if he feels he needs a reminder he can go into the diary and set himself one. Why would a grown man need someone else to do this for them??

I am training as a counsellor.
Ask your counsellor which professional body he is a member of and is he aware of the terms of their ethical framework for professional conduct? Non-judgement, impartiality and ‘do no harm’ come to mind (depending on the framework their are loads)
You have the right to complaint if you feel you are not been treated appropriately.

Complain about the counsellor to his professional body. If he has one. Anyone can set themselves up as a counsellor, without any qualifications at all. Bin him off. And tell your ex you’re not his PA.

I know it sounds like I’m accommodating him, but honestly it is easier this way. The older the DC get the less I will have to communicate with him and I can gradually stop altogether. I felt like this with my Ex, however it’s a fallacy. So putting everything into a diary, going to counseling, being put down is the easier Route? Honestly I recognize myself. Your kids are older now. You can just stop.

He wants to be recognised as a good dad by the DC more than anything. Hence being pissed off if they tell him they’ve done something and he didn’t know about it. He is fully involved in every aspect of their lives if they like it or not. I try and mitigate this as much as I can without saying it is ok to outright lie to him. you are running around appeasing him. His anger should not dictate a single thing.

We have very different parenting approaches. It causes no end of trouble. I feel he isn’t doing the day to day so doesn’t get to micromanage the kids. He feels he is their parent and gets as much say as I do. no he doesn’t. You don’t get any say in how HE parents with them do you? You owe him no contact except pick ups, times and dates. Nothing else.

If you are returning to the counsellor, I would start the third session by saying you want to talk about he your ex is using the concept of reminders to control you. Tell the counsellor he won’t pay you maintenance unless - every week - you text to ask for it. Tell the counsellor your teenage DD isn’t allowed to meet her friends unless you have put it ibvth

Sorry - I didn’t press post! Unless you have put it in the diary first. Tell him it’s about more than one simple reminder, it’s about the ex using text and the online calendar to punish you and make life stressful.

I've got to say I do like VforViennetta's response. And there was another on similar lines a lot earlier in the thread - also good.

Yes, you do need to say something like that.

"The impasse can only be broken by exH taking the responsibility incumbent on him as a parent to remember that he has 4 children every day and check the calendar. I have done far more than is necessary already and I will not be doing anything else - if anything, I will do a lot less and these counselling sessions are now at an end, since you, Mr.Counsellor, seem to think that ExH is such a dullard that he can't remember to check a simple app without a reminder text. I will no longer be party to this farcical arrangement".

OK, you don't have to say that, but some of it maybe could creep into your rebuttal of their suggestion.

You are pandering to him and being a walk over.
Why not go to the CMS?
Why not make him discuss their daily activities with the children?
Why can’t they take responsibility for updating the calendar?
Why can’t you find a new counsellor?

I worry for you op that after 7 years your somewhat subservient behaviour has become entrenched and it will never end.