To have a child when I have zero interest in caring for a baby?

[Undecided84]

I am a long time lurker trying to get an insight into what my life might be like if I do jump off the fence and have a kid.

I am 34, married to DH 40 (we have been together for over a decade, but we got married more recently and just bought our own house). Until recently I was firmly childfree. However, I am now more of a fence sitter.

DH really wants at least one kid. I always made it clear to him that I couldn’t guarantee that I would change my mind so that if it was a be all and end all thing for him, then he should find someone else. He has always replied to this by saying that he’d rather not have them at all than have them with anyone but me. In some ways, this is a nice thing to say, but it puts a huge amount of pressure on me as I feel like I hold the whole responsibility for whether he becomes a father.

More recently, I have come to realise that it’s not the idea of parenthood in general that puts me off, but the idea of taking maternity leave, breastfeeding and being stuck at home caring for a baby or toddler. I have a very interesting and demanding job, which I do not want to step back from in any way, as does DH, so neither of us would be willing or want to go part-time if we had a child. However, we do both have a certain amount of flexibility and both work from home a couple of days a week.

I have been thinking that if I could take the minimum amount of maternity leave necessary, put the child in a nursery full time once he/she is 3 months old, and then go back to work full time, then, just maybe, I could probably cope with having just one child and I wouldn’t resent and hate parenthood.

However, is this all just a sign that I shouldn’t be contemplating having a child at all, even if my DH really wants one? I am interested to hear from other people who simply endured the baby stage, and went into parenthood knowing from the outset that they were not even remotely interested in babies and toddlers?

Let me help you out then.

“Do you need English or logic lessons? Both?”

Your words. Addressed to me because I disagreed with you.

@AnotherEmma didn't state that a parent had to be stuck at home with the baby all the time. In fact she implied the opposite. Your experience is completely compatible with what she has written.

Sigh. And that is why her disagreeing with her quote from me wasn't the brightest of posts.
Seriously... Do you want to go on?

How do you define "I don't want to be stuck at home caring for a baby"?
Do you think the op means for five minutes? One night? Only after work?

If I say, you don't have to be stuck at home. And you reply is that she'll have to care for the baby sometimes. I'd agree.

If you take my post as saying you never have to care for your baby, and take care to point out that she'll have to be at home sometimes, then it's not a matter of disagreeing. It's twisting (on purpose or not) what people say and I'm allowed to be annoyed with this.

Your problem is not disagreeing...

Mine- “No parent has to be stuck at home caring for a baby or toddler.”

Emma - "Um, yes they do. Even if you take the minimum maternity leave and use full time childcare ASAP, the parents have to look after their child sometimes! And if you literally don’t want to spend ANY time looking after it, why have one?"

Hard to work with that "logic". From "not being stuck" to "never looking after". This is not disagreeing. It's making stuff up.

Lweji

There is absolute no need to insult my intelligence and be so rude.

The fact is that we have different interpretations and opinions.

I’m all for a respectful debate but this is not, so I’m not going to respond to you any more.

I’m not going to respond to you any more.
Good

Even if you love parenthood, it's still like being held hostage! Even with paid childcare and a dh who does his share, at some point you will need to be alone and looking after your dc...even if you love doing that, you cannot go out and do everything you want...even small things like a mooch round the shops, trip to the gym, boozy lunch with friends, hair appointment etc. Yes, you'll fit those things in somewhere but the time you are actually with your dc you are basically being held hostage.

In the Netherlands it is normaal to go back to work after 3 months (16 weeks payed leave, 4/6 before and 10/12 after birth). So I don't see anything wrong with that.
I went back both times after 12 weeks and work 4 days. My husband does 4 days also. So grandparents/nursery for both children for 3 days.
I loved going back to work. Yes, I missed my boys but loved using my brain for something other than calculating when the next feed would be.
Oldest is 4 and youngest almost 2 and I'm glad we arrived at this stage. Baby/toddler is hard!

My original post was to find out whether this stage is really is something that you can just endure. You can endure the baby stage, and still have a child who is high needs. Dd2 was an OK baby. Then a better toddler. It wasn't until school started to get stressful for her (yr 2) that she started showing signs of needing more... eventually she was dx with autism and anxiety. She is 10. She is harder work now than when she was as a baby/toddler. So "enduring" the baby stage is one part of the bigger picture.

It may well be because you have low expectations/bordering on dread that the reality ends up being less bad than you expected but that’s a big gamble on a decision that’s irreversible.

Planning practicalities can only get you so far when you’re dealing with the unpredictability of another human being. Although moving from a definite “no” to ambivalence is a sea change, it’s still ambivalence.

Even when you ache for a child and are prepared to go with the flow, it’s hard work. Even if you can outsource the physical care giving, you can’t escape the knowledge that you are responsible for another human being for years.

There are no guarantees you’ll end up with someone “interesting to talk to” - they could be non-verbal; socially awkward or just not want to engage with you! You don’t necessarily get a huge return on this “investment”/sacrifice.

I’d strongly advise against having a child with what you’ve said.

Yes, you'll fit those things in somewhere but the time you are actually with your dc you are basically being held hostage.

Ha yes so true!!

I agree with all those who say don’t do it. I personally think it’s really sad how western society has deemed it acceptable and almost desireable to break down the natural bonds between infants and parents. I don’t agree with full time childcare for under 3s and think we start school way to early in the uk too. People always argue that “they do this in so and so country and it’s fine” but I guess it depends on your definition of “fine” I suppose. Look around and you see most adults with mental heath problems, substance abuse, abusive and dysfunctional relationships, violence, increasing levels of narcissism and lack of empathy, etc etc etc. This western obsession with work above all else is out of balance. We should be exploring other ways of flexible working and having families, like longer and shared parental leave, job shares, shared care between families (like a tribe!).

Anyway I digress. If you don’t actively want children then I don’t think you should have one. It’s a perfectly valid choice.

I don’t agree with full time childcare for under 3s and think we start school way to early in the uk too. (...) Look around and you see most adults with mental heath problems, substance abuse, abusive and dysfunctional relationships, violence, increasing levels of narcissism and lack of empathy, etc etc etc.

Are you blaming working parents for mental health problems, substance abuse and dysfunctional relationships, etc?
Based on what?

Lweji
This is also the type of comment that I have trouble figuring out how people reached that conclusion.
What exactly did you base it on? I'm curious as to your mind process
Quotes from you in Italics:

BTW, I think many pps are confusing being a parent with caring for a baby
Implying misunderstanding where there is none. Many people may have linked the two things however that wasn't driven by confusion but more a difference in opinion.

Do you need English or logic lessons? Both?
Downright rude considering her response was totally logical and appropriate.

*You “No parent has to be stuck at home caring for a baby or toddler.”

Emma - "Um, yes they do. Even if you take the minimum maternity leave and use full time childcare ASAP, the parents have to look after their child sometimes! And if you literally don’t want to spend ANY time looking after it, why have one?

Hard to work with that "logic".
From "not being stuck" to "never looking after"*
A large chunk of looking after a baby/child involves being stuck at home, especially in the evening when OP is likely to be doing the bulk of her childcare. How would you envisage that OP would conduct the bedtime routine and make sure there was an adult present in the house whilst the baby/child was sleeping without one parent being "stuck at home" the majority of the time. Unless she outsources all of the childcare then she can't completely escape this so Emma's logic is completely sound.

No I’m not blaming working parents directly, sorry if it’s reads like that. I mean western society is a pretty toxic environment in general and its priorities in general are all backwards. And the western obsession with work over all else (including the emotional needs of babies and small children) is part of it

You need to consider too how you might manage if the child has disabilities.
^^this

How many of the gung-ho 'naturally maternal' mothers-to-be think this through seriously before trying to conceive? Or do you think that being 'naturally maternal' somehow makes you magically able to cope with a child with a disability without strain/difficulty/heartsearching at abdicating elements of their own life?
No it I think me really wanting a baby has made it easier.

OP wants to have a baby, pop it in full time nursery and make it through to the less endurance testing stage. But what if that baby is still in hospital at 4 months? At 6 months in to maternity, planning on going back at just under full time I realised one of us had to quit work. He was back in hospital and I didn't know if it would e er change. At1 he did 4 months solid. On the day decisions on whether to operate so I was always around to sign a consent form, talk through options. At 2 he was clear of hospital but still medically complex, it took 9 months to sort nursery for 3 hours a day!! We get a handful of respite care days and no fancy help. Of course it isn't easy, but if I'd had a child to make DH happy and thought ah once he's 3 and we can chat and he can be in full time child care it'll be fine I'd be screwed!
So yeah, if you're ambivalent you need to think about what happens if this kid is extra hard work and if you're up for that. Everyone should probably think about it, but def if you're not sure anyway

Having a child is very hard work. Draining on every level, in ways you could never predict and no one can warn you about. The joys are of course immeasurable.

I worry that given that you are 'lukewarm' at best now, the realities of motherhood could tip you over into unhappiness and possibly resenting your partner and your baby for your loss of freedom and the demands on your time/energy.
Those of us going into motherhood 100% wanting a baby, doing our best to prepare for the hardships involved, often still struggle with the reality of it.

I don't know what to advise. Maybe just do some real soul-searching about how you truly feel, the realities involved in motherhood (TTC, pregnancy, childbirth, breastfeeding or not, infancy, lack of sleep, changes to your body, impact on your freedom/independence etc), your relationship with your partner and how that might change, and whether you feel ready to embrace all that. It's normal to feel nervous, or scared of the enormity of the prospect of having a child - but you need to get to the root of what you feel - is it nervousness, or a real aversion to it? If the latter, really think hard about how this could affect a child. Good luck.

Are you blaming working parents for mental health problems, substance abuse and dysfunctional relationships, etc?
Based on what?

Having thought about it more I guess what I’m saying is that I don’t blame working parents, but I do hold poor parenting highly accountable for these things.

And being emotionally disengaged from your children because you never really wanted them, don’t engage with them, show them affection or love and basically do everything you can to avoid spending time with them is poor parenting.

People do work full time from 3 months. It is possible. In fact most Mat leave policies stop paying full salary from that point any way. Parenthood is individual. Don’t let a load of MNetters make you believe you won’t be a good mum just because you want to keep your career / don’t like the baby stage. I suggest going for it.

but I do hold poor parenting highly accountable for these things

I would agree, but anyone can be a poor parent. Disengaged parents can be just as damaging as over controlling helicopter parents. The PFB phenomenon could be just as bad as not wanting to spend time with children.
Like a parent present 100% of the time is not better than a parent present 60% of the time.

The OP will be the best judge as to whether she should have a baby or not.
I just don't think that wanting 100% to be a parent is a requirement for successful parenting. As is loving babies or wanting to spend loads of time with them.
People who really want children can just as easily get a reality shock. So many develop PND.
I don't think we can predict how parenting will go for any one person.

I don't think we can predict how parenting will go for any one person.

No obviously no one can predict what parenthood has in store for us: infertility, miscarriage, premature delivery, traumatic delivery, feeding problems, health issues or disability, high needs children, etc etc.

But I think it true to say that one can be pretty confident how one might cope with the stresses, unpredictablity and emotions of parenting based on how one already copes with general life stress. Is someone already naturally kind, patient, flexible, calm, caring?? Or selfish, angry, self absorbed, impatient and unkind??

What I mean is I know people who I thought would make great parents before they had children and several people who I hope to god never become parents

Indeed.
It's not all about wanting or being meh about children. :)

I had kids because I was a bit of a fence sitter and my friends/family/society expect you to have them.... I don't find motherhood rewarding or enjoyable (my kids are happy, healthy and loved by the way), but in hindsight, I wish I'd not had kids. Im very envious of my friends who's lives revolve around their kids and they enjoy it.

OP - In your shoes, I absolutely would not have a baby. It wouldn’t be fair on the baby/child. I desperately wanted babies and adore my children but I find being a parent SO hard and relentless. It is really not for someone who isn’t fully engaged with being a parent, which it doesn’t sound like you will be.

Are you blaming working parents for mental health problems, substance abuse and dysfunctional relationships, etc?
Based on what?

That’s not how I read that post at all. Of course working parents aren’t to blame, but there are many ways in which our society makes it a challenge to work and be a parent - with a culture of presenteeism in a lot of workplaces, an opposition to flexible/part time work, incredibly high childcare fees which trap people in a cycle of needing to work longer hours to fund childcare, high property prices forcing people to commute long distances, etc.