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Original poster

To think the tide is turning with transgenderism

999 replies

abacucat · 11/10/2018 10:05

There have been a flood of articles in mainstream newspapers criticising transgenderism and putting forward the feminist perspective. It is not long ago that no mainstream newspaper would carry these articles. The tide seems to be turning.

OP posts:
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7
Ereshkigal · 12/10/2018 08:57

Don't even bother Verbeena.

Elephantinacravat · 12/10/2018 08:58

Also, if you have a female body then what are the odd of a chromosome test coming back as XY anyway?!

VerbeenaBeeks · 12/10/2018 08:59

Bother what? You're showing EXACTLY why people don't engage properly the more you post.

Louislovesmud · 12/10/2018 08:59

Elephantinacravat I've provided some of the criteria in my post above. There's more to it than that, but that's as much as I managed to type on my morning commute.

My female body is why I have assumed I have the female chromosomes, absolutely. But as I've said my womanhood doesn't depend on my female body - it speaks less to a visual appearance and more to my understanding of the roles in society and where I slot myself into those

VerbeenaBeeks · 12/10/2018 09:01

Elephant - what about the rest of what was said? It's view dismissing again, for the sake of picking up on little bits that they might have said wrong.
What about those REPEATEDLY saying that for some, it's a body and a mind matching up?
That we can feel female both physicallyand mentally? You don't want to listen, none of you do. Clear as day.

Louislovesmud · 12/10/2018 09:02

Also, if you have a female body then what are the odd of a chromosome test coming back as XY anyway? I really don't know the odds but it is possible

MIdgebabe · 12/10/2018 09:05

Picking up where I went to sleep

Given that not all men are bad, but be the risk provided by men is high, as a society provide some separation between men and women. Protect women from abuse and to protect women from mental trauma.

what reason is there for treat8ng transwomen differently to men? YOU give an example of in your opinion a safe transperson. I can give lotsvof examples of good men.

As a group they are as abusive as men. As a group they lead to similar levels of mental harm in women who have suffered violnece .

Your argument is essentially that because some men and transwomen are ok we should not allow any kind of separation in any circumstances

You can not apply your rational to transwomen and not to men as there is no material risk and harm difference between the 2 GROUPS

Louislovesmud · 12/10/2018 09:05

I have to work now so will check the thread when I can. I'm not saying my feelings couldn't do with some further fleshing out or that they speak for anyone else btw - just in case they're taken as representative of more than just me

Ereshkigal · 12/10/2018 09:05

Hugely unlikely. You wouldn't be producing ova. So you would know you didn't have periods.

Louislovesmud · 12/10/2018 09:07

I'm annovulatory

Ereshkigal · 12/10/2018 09:07

Do you really think women who go through a female puberty normally, have babies etc suddenly discover they are XY? Female: of or denoting the sex that can produce ova.

Ereshkigal · 12/10/2018 09:08

So you would go to the doctor as a teenager and look at why you hadn't started your periods. Then you would find out.

Louislovesmud · 12/10/2018 09:08

I don't produce ova. Haven't (afaik) since the start and have undergone LOADS of testing. But I still obviously feel that I am a woman.

Ereshkigal · 12/10/2018 09:09

And obviously you are. But you are female.

Elephantinacravat · 12/10/2018 09:11

My female body is why I have assumed I have the female chromosomes, absolutely. But as I've said my womanhood doesn't depend on my female body - it speaks less to a visual appearance and more to my understanding of the roles in society and where I slot myself into those

But 'roles in society' have always been decided, and continue to be so at the moment, by material sexed bodies, not the gender identity that people feel on the inside? People have always known who the women are because of their female bodies not their gender identity: its how people have always known which of the population based on sex class to oppress.

Louislovesmud · 12/10/2018 09:11

As an FYI, being annovulatory doesn't mean you don't ever bleed. It was the irregular and abnormal bleeding that led me to the doctor in the first place, and the subsequent testing that confirmed what was happening.

Elephantinacravat · 12/10/2018 09:12

Oh do bore off Verbeena, some people are trying to have a grown up debate here.

Louislovesmud · 12/10/2018 09:13

That's obviously beside the point, just wanted to say it in case someone read it and thought they must/must not have the same issue as me based on bleeding.

Datun · 12/10/2018 09:13

Well of course your societal role will be a result of the way society treats you. And it treats you like that because you're a woman.

This imaginary what happens if I wake up in a man's body tomorrow is a reflection of that.

That's not what defines womanhood, though. Because societal roles change throughout geography and history.

There's no disputing that. But the way you are treated 'As a woman' and therefore the way you might behave 'as a woman' isn't innate.

And any two women would be different. There is no common characteristic that ALL women share.

That's the basis of feminism.

Elephantinacravat · 12/10/2018 09:16

But being annovulatory is a uniquely female experience, it's something that no man will ever experience. And it's based on your material female body, it's nothing to do with your gender identity, it's part of how you know you are a woman. Obviously its not all of what makes you a woman, but it's one of the small parts that add up.

VerbeenaBeeks · 12/10/2018 09:16

Personal attack instead of asking why for some, which OTHERS have too, that we feel it mentally and physically?
It's the wrong answer. There is literally no point in arguing as you cannot engage seeing others viewpoints. Even when they tell you, it's nah try. again, you're wrong.
One even got a "darling you're wrong" thrown in for good measure for disagreeing.

Ereshkigal · 12/10/2018 09:16

As an FYI, being annovulatory doesn't mean you don't ever bleed. It was the irregular and abnormal bleeding that led me to the doctor in the first place, and the subsequent testing that confirmed what was happening.

If you were XY you wouldn't ever bleed.

Louislovesmud · 12/10/2018 09:17

But 'roles in society' have always been decided, and continue to be so at the moment, by material sexed bodies, not the gender identity that people feel

I agree, what I think has changed here is that there are groups of people less happy to be boxed in based on physicality where they cannot identify with their categorised group. I've probably mis worded that, as I think there is less choice involved than how I'm phrasing it so sorry if that comes across as dismissive of any type of dysphoria

Ereshkigal · 12/10/2018 09:18

That's obviously beside the point, just wanted to say it in case someone read it and thought they must/must not have the same issue as me based on bleeding.

Ok, got you.

Ereshkigal · 12/10/2018 09:19

One even got a "darling you're wrong" thrown in for good measure for disagreeing.

He was wrong. I was clearing up a misconception for him.