To think the tide is turning with transgenderism

[abacucat]

There have been a flood of articles in mainstream newspapers criticising transgenderism and putting forward the feminist perspective. It is not long ago that no mainstream newspaper would carry these articles. The tide seems to be turning.

Do you think if you repeat your lies enough they become fact?

They aren't lies.

In the UK at least there are more trans people serving time for murder than there are trans people who have been murdered.

You can easily look this up yourself. You are already on the internet.

'The very worst of mumsnet is here on this thread. The very worst. I’m out. Have fun patting each other on the back for criticising a remembrance service for murder victims. I’m sure you all feel real good about that.'

Typical TRA argument. Try to make people feel bad for talking about facts then run off crying because they hurt your feelings.

Nobody is against the day of remembrance.

What people are against however is the inconsistency and double standards.

It's fine for this day of remembrance to address and acknowledge transphobia but at the same time it's not okay for people to talk about how transwomen are different to women and have difference experiences and need different rights. The former is apparently okay but the latter would instantly have you labelled a transphobe and a bigoted TERF.

Have your day but don't then later turn around and scream "transwomen are women!" whenever a woman expresses concern about getting changed in front of a male bodied person.

Either transwomen are women and transmen are men or they're not. But you have to accept that you can't have it both ways.

It worries me how often individuals supporting self-ID call factually accurate information 'lies'. It suggests that they are happy to disregard facts that get in their way.

What I would like is some facts.

How many of the Trans community are murderers? As a percentage?
How many are murdered each year? As a percentage?
how many are physically assaulted? as a percentage?

How many of the Women community are murderers? As a percentage?
How many are Women murdered each year? As a percentage?
How many Women are physically assaulted? as a percentage?

And make sure there is no double counting. Because I hear a lot of statements but struggle to find the facts.
Are TransWomen subject to more abuse than Women? Are they more likely to be murdered?
If we look at particular ethnic communities how does this compare to women in those communities?

And an answer as to how to refer to a certain school caretaker in Prison for murdering two girls, without either "dead naming" or using a highly offensive (to the victims families) name.

Is there any sort of breakdown of the trans murderer/victim stats? Do they relate just to transwomen or are transmen also included? I’m assuming the numbers are very small hence the really odd statement that trans people are 71% more likely to be perpetrators than victims. So it shouldn’t be that hard to find out more. Like, were the trans victims all murdered by men? (I’m assuming yes but willing to be corrected.) What about the trans murderers, who were the victims in those cases?

IIRC there were more transmen murdered than transwomen.

However victims who are transmen tend to get ignored and brushed aside in favour of transwomen.

There is no sexism at all here, nope.

Thanks, Beastie. Wow, your workplace seems keen on taking up your lunchtimes. I mean, good on them I guess, but damn.

Also, as to the Transgender Day of Remembrance, perhaps Beastie you should also address the trans activists who protested on the Day of Remembrance for women murdered in the L’Ecole Polytechnique massacre. www.gendertrender.wordpress.com/2013/11/20/transgender-activists-plan-protest-against-day-of-remembrance-for-women-murdered-in-the-lecole-polytechnique-massacre/

I think the feminist message about trans is getting out there just fine, thank god! Me and my feminist sisters are being heard loud and proud with our message that trans women are women and that we're better standing shoulder to shoulder to protect the rights of women and girls.

Thankfully this message of empathy and inclusivity is common sense for most people, so we haven't had to work too hard. We don't need pages of questionable stats conflating trans women with sex offenders, thankfully the feminist position of "trans women are women" is basic humanity and doesn't require a week long course of indoctrination on the MN FWR boards.

Here you are. I'm afraid the stats only go up to 2017 but in the period covered more trans murderers than victims.

transcrimeuk.com/2017/11/16/trans-homicides-in-the-uk-a-closer-look-at-the-numbers/

In terms of murder, and sexual assaults, males are more likely to be murdered in random violence than females (gender aside) and females more likely to be murdered by someone they know (domestic violence.) Females are more likely to be sexually assaulted over their lifetime, (gender aside,) and males less likely. Males (gender aside,) are vastly more likely to commit violent and sexual crime.
I posted with stats about sexual assault, and crime, here (I haven't looked into murder rates myself yet, but I think I can dig up some US stats collated by someone else, if anyone wants em.) www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3390610-in-my-understanding-of-the-trans-issue?pg=9&order=
They're the long boring posts

@CaligulaBlushed

As of 2008 in California, 20.5% of transgender males incarcerated were registered sex offenders, compared to 14.6% of incarcerated non-trans males, and 1.3% of females.

FFS.

For what it’s worth AuntBeastie, I think it’s great that your workplace has so many different seminars. It sound so very positive. I’m sorry you’re being attacked here.

Caligula if trans women are women what are they transing from? Why do they call themselves transwomen? Why the constant cult like chant "transwomen are women"?

I'm a feminist btw and I don't share your position because my concern is for women and girls.

Me and my feminist sisters are being heard loud and proud with our message that trans women are women

And I know quite a few transwoman who would disagree with you there @CaligulaBlushed.

I actually know one who finds the whole notion of transwomen being women to be the transphobic viewpoint as they feel like they are being erased and it makes a mockery of everything they've been through.

@CaligulaBlushed

Also if transwomen are women it therefore logically follows that transmen are men...and if that's the case then why do we need a transgender day of remembrance? Surely the people you are remembering are just normal men and women no different to anyone else therefore what exactly is the purpose?

I suppose CaligulaBlushed has as much right to call themself a feminist as anyone. Feminist opinion is hardly a monolith, and feminists vary in their views in many ways. But myself personally - I find it very hard to see someone who places more weight on male feelings and gender identity, than they do sex-based oppression and the female sex's safety and dignity, as a feminist. It seems contrary to the entire concept of feminism.

Thanks Bingle this pretty much answers my questions. I will add that these stats should be interpreted with extreme caution due to the very low number of cases.

transcrimeuk.com/2017/11/16/trans-homicides-in-the-uk-a-closer-look-at-the-numbers/

Things that are normalised in FWR:

1. Troll hunting like we see you, or calling someone bro, or a TRA sir posting something supportive of tolerance and inclusivity for trans people

1. Posting against self ID in a way that's presumes most or all people on hte thread or reading it are in agreement

1. Misrepresenting stats or making them up to suit the anti-self-ID agenda

1. Throwing in some inflammatory stories about bad things trans people have done anywhere ever to bolster the anti-self-ID agenda

Meanwhile back in the real world, tolerance and inclusivity is considered a good thing, including towards trans people.

That's why this thread belongs in FWR, not AIBU. It's seeking confirmation, not asking AIBU.

Oh, and for the record, just in case you really are asking, YABU. If you hang out in echo chambers enough you make yourself vulnerable to confirmation bias.

There have been a flood of articles in mainstream newspapers criticising transgenderism and putting forward the feminist perspective.

I'm not sure that the feminist perspective is exclusive to feminism here. Woman = adult human female is a very mainstream fact, recognised throughout history and all over the world.

I think that newspapers are picking up on the fact that safeguarding is being trampled on. And that people are being coerced into accepting that transwomen are female. Even when in possession of standard male anatomy. Even when there is no evidence to support this.

Also, a lot of articles are supportive of transgender people whilst also criticising the implementation of self ID laws. So not necessarily criticising transgenderism per se.

Transgender day of remembrance is a lovely gesture. No question. But it is legitimate to ask why workplaces don't mark the murder of women by men in far higher numbers.

Do you think if you repeat your lies enough they become fact?

TRAs and handmaidens do this, regularly.

The very worst of mumsnet is here on this thread. The very worst. I’m out. Have fun patting each other on the back for criticising a remembrance service for murder victims. I’m sure you all feel real good about that

Girls girls girls. If you were just nicer and stopped challenging TRAs and allies with facts, then there wouldn't be any problems. But, no, you gotta keep bringing facts into the conversation.

Hope you're satisfied with yourselves!

Do you know what, OP. I think the tide might be on the turn, yes. I’m seeing and hearing more women openly and loudly support the gender critical position every day. A big one on Twitter this week, to me, has been Ros Barber, who’s a lecturer at Goldsmith’s and a very fine novelist.

Extreme caution - I agree you can't generalise from them. But they are sufficient to refute the misinformation frequently given by trans-rights activists, as was done above on this thread.

Whoops, forgot the "not a real feminist" one. Thanks for the reminder scrumple