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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think its great that these celebrities are sponsoring coaches to the People's Vote March in London

174 replies

HurricaneFloss · 07/10/2018 13:29

www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/oct/06/stars-line-up-to-pay-coach-travel-to-brexit-peoples-vote-march

Good on you, Sir Patrick Stewart and Delia Smith!

Not just celebrities - some politicians and business owners, too.

OP posts:
lonelyplanetmum · 07/10/2018 23:16

YANBU

Sir Patrick and Delia are kindly taking action to help avert an unnecessarily harmful economic choice.It is their democratic right to do so.

If any individual chooses a pig in a poke, they should be given the chance to reconfirm their choice once they have actually seen it.

Those who support the government's strategy (whatever that is) should be confident to defend their position. If there is confidence our economy will regain and exceed its previous fifth position why be frightened of a confirmatory vote?

Wearywithteens · 07/10/2018 23:28

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn at the poster's request.

curious2 · 08/10/2018 06:45

So it wasn't "an illegal referendum" then.

If Vote Leave illegally overspent during the campaign, then the result should be at the very least questioned, if not discredited.

Of course this won’t happen, in the same way that it hasn’t happened in the case of Tory election campaign overspending.

It doesn’t matter what ardent Leavers believe - in the end, when we leave the EU, which we will (but we are allowed to march until we are blue in the face if we want), it will go down as one of the biggest clusterfucks in British 21st century history. All because a few lying arseholes like Rees-Mogg and Johnson a. put their personal ambition above the needs of the country and b. did not want to have to adhere to the upcoming EU tax directives.

On all fronts we have been lied to.

surferjet · 08/10/2018 07:05

It’s great that remainers are still ‘at it’ - we live in a wonderful, free, democracy after all.

But I’m a BeLeaver, not a trace, of doubt of my mind. Grin

Hope you have a lovely day marching.

AlexaShutUp · 08/10/2018 07:22

Please let's stop all this pessimistic hysteria.

Surely it is the leavers who are pessimistic, because they are clearly scared that a second vote would result in a majority of voters choosing to remain in the EU.

Suddenly, the "will of the people" doesn't seem quite so appealing because there is a possibility that "the people" may have changed their minds, now that they have a clearer idea of what they're actually voting for.

If the referendum was considered democratic the first time around, I'm not sure why anyone would object to a second one, now that there is more information available. This is the most important decision we'll be making for decades, and it's an opportunity to confirm that it's what "the people" genuinely want.

Unless, of course, you're afraid that they might not want it any more....

MissSusanSays · 08/10/2018 07:25

@10degreestostarboard

We are hardly doing any better, are we? We don’t even seem to be able to manage a consistent negotiation strategy. What a shower our government is!

This is NOT what we were told would happen by the Leave campaign in their illegally funded campaign of misinformation. We were promised that leaving would be easy and simple and we would become masters of the universe again.

Except that these days we are an insignificant little island nation in a world chock full of super states.

You know what, celebrate and sneer all you want now. But if it all goes tits up I want every fervent Leave campaigner helps to account. Nothing too terrible. I would just want to hear an apology for completely fucking up the chances of people of this country for decades to come based on no factual evidence and completely based on jingoism, fear and lies.

MissSusanSays · 08/10/2018 07:27

held to account 🙄

Bloody autocorrect.

BadLad · 08/10/2018 07:39

If Vote Leave illegally overspent during the campaign, then the result should be at the very least questioned, if not discredited.

That's a long way from an "illegal referendum", which implies that the very holding of it in the first place was against the law.

surferjet · 08/10/2018 07:45

I would just want to hear an apology for completely fucking up the chances of people of this country for decades to come

What chances?
How exactly are lives going to be ruined?
All remainers say is something about young people not being allowed to work in France HmmConfused

MissSusanSays · 08/10/2018 07:49

@BadLad

I never said it was an ‘illegal referendum’. Do keep up.

@surferjet
We’ll find out, won’t we. If it does all go wrong will you be climbing down from your smug high horse? Or will you take the Rees-Mogg route and try to persuade us that a decade of self inflicted pain is worth it in the end. Real man of the people, isn’t he.

surferjet · 08/10/2018 07:56

‘Smug high horse’

What? Because something I voted for in LEGAL referendum is actually being carried out? Democracy in action is people being ‘smug’ ???? Bloody hell.

And stop picking on JRM and other privileged leavers. Until you can post a list of all the poor / working class / man of the people type remain MP’s. Which you can’t because they’re all rolling in money too ....or haven’t you noticed that? Hmm

longwayoff · 08/10/2018 08:05

Brexiters. You say we've had the peoples vote and brexit is what we want. You are all vociferously sure about it. So why a problem with a second vote? Surely, if you're correct, there will be absolute confirmation that we're all looking forward to the murky future being offered to us.

AnotherCareerThread · 08/10/2018 08:06

I think the reason that stringenteave voters get so pussy when the possibility f a second referendum is bought up, is because they know they'll lose.

They know that Leave only won through unprecedented circumstances last time, due to misinformation and Remainders being cock and not voting.
They realise that a significant proportion of Leave voters were of the elderly generation and have possibly died since the original vote and that a new generation of more Liberal thinking voters have become of age.

Whilst I find it astounding that anyone can still make the argument "we'll we voted, so we have to do it now" in the face of overwhelming evidence that the reality is nothing like what was advertised, and that is actually incredibly damaging... I've got to admire the stubbornness.

AnotherCareerThread · 08/10/2018 08:08

Wow super typos sorry. New phone.

*stringent leavers
*pissy
*of
*cocky
*well

That'll show me for not proof reading

AnotherCareerThread · 08/10/2018 08:10

Suddenly, the "will of the people" doesn't seem quite so appealing because there is a possibility that "the people" may have changed their minds, now that they have a clearer idea of what they're actually voting for.

If the referendum was considered democratic the first time around, I'm not sure why anyone would object to a second one, now that there is more information available. This is the most important decision we'll be making for decades, and it's an opportunity to confirm that it's what "the people" genuinely want.

Unless, of course, you're afraid that they might not want it any more....

Beautifully put.

surferjet · 08/10/2018 08:18

AnotherCareerThread

The problem with another referendum is polls suggest hardly anyone has changed their mind.
But I agree, this time around remain might win, but it wouldn’t be a 70 - 30 type win remainers think it would be. It would probably be another 48 - 52 ; or less, so what do we do then?

Run it again?

You’d need a significant win to make it worthwhile, or else everything you’ve been saying about the tiny win margin leave have will be thrown back in your face.

chicaguapa · 08/10/2018 08:23

It's astonishing that people who feel so strongly about "getting control back" should now not want to have a say and instead just want to sit back and watch.

DisappearingGirl · 08/10/2018 08:28

I am not sure about a second referendum for all the reasons stated. I think the government should:

  • Try their absolute best to honour the referendum result by trying to negotiate the best deal possible over the next few weeks - and if they get one, go ahead and leave

  • If there is simply no available deal that won't fuck up the country (looking increasingly likely) I think they should be honest and give a massive apology to the country (esp leave voters) and say sorry we messed up, we can't actually leave without fucking up the country, we should never have had a referendum on it, we're staying.

AnotherCareerThread · 08/10/2018 08:29

@surferjet

How exactly are lives going to be ruined?

Via additional strain on an already failing NHS
*Almost 10,000 EU health workers have quit NHS since Brexit vote
*This year it emerged that 40,000 nursing posts were now vacant in the NHS in England as the service heads for the worst recruitment crisis in its history

Access to medication will be restricted
*No-Deal Brexit at would mean the importation of drugs is halted overnight. An unthinkable scenario for patients with serious medical conditions in the midst of treatment plans.
*EG. we make no insulin in the UK. We import every drop of it. You can’t transport insulin around ordinarily because it must be temperature-controlled. And there are 3.5 million people with diabetes, some of whom rely on insulin

Education will suffer
*Universities UK, the organisation representing British universities, said the figures showed British researchers had lost out on €136m since February last year, assuming funding had been maintained at previous levels.

The economy will suffer
*A FTA option will add £55bn ($75bn) to annual public borrowing in 15 years’ time
oh and for those arguing that a Free Trade Agreement with the US and China will make up for it
*analysis also finds that offsetting gains from putative trade deals with third countries are relatively small. It concludes that an FTA with America would increase GDP by 0.2%. Free-trade deals with China, India, other Asian countries and Australia and New Zealand add only a little more. The model also finds that unilateral British trade liberalisation, a policy favoured by many Brexiteers, may mitigate losses under the WTO option by only 0.2% of GDP.
*The annual extra cost to British exporters is put at £27bn, or 1.5% of gross value-added

And this is just a TINY part of it.
Most of these things have already started, so it's not fear mongering, it's reality.

I genuinely want a leave voter to come here and give detailed, fact backed points as to why we'd be better off. Please please do

AnotherCareerThread · 08/10/2018 08:31

@surferjet

So you're argument is that a 48-52 vote is not strong enough to instigate significant change with?

surferjet · 08/10/2018 08:49

Via additional strain on an already failing NHS

If you think the only reason there’s a staff shortage in the NHS is due to brexit you shouldn’t even be on this thread.

Access to medication will be restricted
You really think we haven’t planned for a no deal brexit? Do you genuinely believe our government will let 3.5 million insulin dependent people die? Hmm

Education will suffer

Teachers & university staff are the handmaidens of the EU so no surprise to see that project fear headline.

The economy will suffer

It may do. Have we never had recessions before? I’m 52 and I’ve lived through at least 3.

So more project fear.

AnotherCareerThread · 08/10/2018 08:54

@surferjet I've just listed statistics and facts for you and your only argument is to label them as "Project Fear".

Could you actually respond with research and facts of your own?

Poloshot · 08/10/2018 08:56

Attention seekers

surferjet · 08/10/2018 09:08

Your research & facts are not your own - you’ve c&p’d them from your masters ( the guardian )

Come back to me when you’ve got your own ideas.

Defrack · 08/10/2018 09:18

www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/conservative-party/david-cameron/news/91572/official-eu-remain-campaign

Can we just say I've just found this which suggests remain also broke electoral law.