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AIBU?

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Original poster

AIBU in Saying Cancer isn't a Battle That You Win or Lose

270 replies

NicePieceOfPlaid · 04/10/2018 08:23

I heard this morning that the mother of a young friend died over night. She'd had cancer for a while but had not responded to treatment.

Friend has posted a brief message on facebook to let friends know. Among the first messages is one saying that the person is sorry she lost her battle. Cancer isn't a fight or a battle. You can't buy a gun and shoot it.

Sometimes the treatment works and sometimes it doesn't. I had cancer and so far the treatment has worked for me. If it comes back I'm not going to blame myself for not fighting hard enough.

It's down to luck. If you die from cancer it wasn't because you were too weak to fight it. It really gives me the rage when it's talked of as a battle. I no longer give to charities who address it in that way.

Why make terminally ill people feel even worse by implying they haven't fought hard enough?

OP posts:
TwitterQueen1 · 04/10/2018 12:59

Time for me to bow out here. Tx again YTS. Banging our heads against a brick wall....

OP sorry for derail! I was trying to support you, not engage in a bunfight.

YeTalkShiteHen · 04/10/2018 13:02

TwitterQueen I’m glad I didn’t upset you!

Sorry for the derail OP, I’m off too.

BanananananaDaiquiri · 04/10/2018 13:02

And I do think that criticising an organisation that is trying its best to ‘beat’ this awful illness is a little pointless.

Why should such an organisation not take on board feedback that the language used in Campaign X was unhelpful, and to avoid it when they launch Campaign Z? It's not going to cost them anything extra, because presumably Campaign Z was going to happen anyway, and Campaign X has already run.

Elephantinacravat · 04/10/2018 13:02

The 'Stand Up To Cancer' campaign isn't about individuals 'battles' with cancer, its talking about collectively 'fighting' cancer with funding and research to try and eradicate it as a fatal disease. It does divide people though and there has been lots of discussion about it in social media and forums etc.

I am currently having cancer treatment and am in contact with lots of people in the same boat as me. And I have found different people refer to it in different ways and what one person uses will really annoy another. I have seen lots of people call themselves 'warriors' and 'fighters'.

Personally I don't like the 'battle' analogy on an individual level because at the end of the day it's luck. You don't really have a choice but to 'fight' it, which actually just means having your treatment. I guess sometimes just getting through the day does seem like a battle when you are in treatment, but you can't fight cancer because it's not a fair fight. If it's going to get you, it doesn't matter what you do.

Deborah James (Bowel Babe) has just released a book today called 'Fuck You Cancer'. She is living with stage 4 bowel cancer and there was less than a 10% chance that she should have even survived for this long. I think if she wants to use language like she has for the title of her book, then she is perfectly entitled to do that, even though some won't agree that it's appropriate because cancer is our own cells.

MaryPoppinsPenguins · 04/10/2018 13:03

I don’t think it’s bullying to have a different view, I’m sorry if you feel that way.

What these charities do is incredible and I’m positive they don’t set out to offend anyone. They’re doing the best they can to help.

YeTalkShiteHen · 04/10/2018 13:04

MaryPoppins

Macmillan not only didn’t help my Mum, they actually delayed her return home to die. They make me sick.

Marie Curie on the other hand, fucking phenomenal.

Elephantinacravat · 04/10/2018 13:06

I don't think everyone will agree on the 'right' sort of ad campaigns either, and everyone has different experiences of charities as well so will always have opinions on the 'best' ones.

stellabird · 04/10/2018 13:09

I've always hated the suggestion that people can "fight" cancer. I've had cancer, so did my sister. She died, I didn't. Neither of us "fought" - we submitted ourselves to every possible treatment, and mine was successful, that's all.

I also got really upset when people said that my dear sister had "lost her battle" as if there had been a fight and she'd lost it . She did everything she could, put up with horrible treatments and watched her 3 teenaged daughters being wracked with grief. But her death was the luck of the draw - she died because her cancer was so aggressive that her body was destroyed by it. Not because of anything she did or didn't do.

I wish there was a different way of describing what happens - the idea that you put on your armour and fight the good fight is ludicrous. But people will say these things, I know.

Babykoala1 · 04/10/2018 13:10

I was thinking this the other day. Someone posted about their dad who "won the battle" and how strong they are etc etc. Whilst it's amazing he's in remission, I couldn't help but think of those people who have "lost" the battle and what it would mean to them. Were they not strong enough? I think people should phrase things more carefully on such a sensitive issue.
It also annoys me when some sort of miracle?(for want of a better word) happens and people say things like "God was looking out for me" and other bullshit. So, was God not looking out for all the people that died under similar circumstances? Were they not important enough? I'm an atheist so I don't believe God was looking out for anyone but it still grates on me!

Anyway enough ramblings, in my eyes YANBU.

Namechangeforthiscancershit · 04/10/2018 13:17

Deborah James (Bowel Babe) has just released a book today called 'Fuck You Cancer'. She is living with stage 4 bowel cancer and there was less than a 10% chance that she should have even survived for this long. I think if she wants to use language like she has for the title of her book, then she is perfectly entitled to do that, even though some won't agree that it's appropriate because cancer is our own cells

I have no issue with the “fuck you” stuff because I do feel like that a lot of the time and I’m hopeless at showing anger so people like DJ probably help me a bit. My diagnosis is so similar to hers (I think her liver is ok though from memory) so I can’t decide whether to read the book. I kind of want someone to vet it for me beforehand! Any reviews let me know!

Westwing1 · 04/10/2018 13:18

I agree with you 100%, one of my siblings died of a brain tumour, I find the phrase inaccurate, crass and so insulting to those who died. I wish people would stop using it.

My sibling died in their 40s, never smoked and only drank a glass of wine with their Christmas lunch. Just bad luck.

Sammio · 04/10/2018 13:24

There’s no winners were cancer is concerned. Even if you respond well to treatment and are cured, there can be lasting effects both physically and mentally. I hate the phrase too OP. My dad survived cancer and has been cancer free since summer 2013, but he’s not a winner. It’s changed him and he will never be the same person. He’s suffered depression and had life changing surgery. He had to take a lower paid job because he couldn’t do his role any longer. He survived cancer, but there’s no winners here either.

SuperGekkoMuscles · 04/10/2018 13:32

I felt the same way when that "Fuck you, cancer"

I have no problem with this one. It was how I felt when DH had cancer and I was looking after him and two small children. It momentarily ruined our lives.

Original poster
NicePieceOfPlaid · 04/10/2018 14:27

OP sorry for derail! I was trying to support you, not engage in a bunfight.

Sorry for the derail OP, I’m off too.

No worries, thanks for understanding what I was trying to say.

I agree with those saying it's for people to choose a language that suits them but I don't think it's unreasonable to not want it imposed onto me and others with cancer. Especially not the terminally ill.

Thanks for the views. I guess most think I'm not U. I'm happy with that.

OP posts:
Namechangeforthiscancershit · 04/10/2018 14:48

Lots of us are with you OP. I don’t think U at all.

I hope that you stay really well as you obviously are now. I don’t know what follow up scans etc you have to have but if you have any come up that make you feel a bit AGHH I could not recommend the cancer handhold highly enough. So many lovely lovely people who understand the scanxiety, long lasting side effects, etc etc.

carbuckety · 04/10/2018 14:59

Totally agree. I have had cancer and shitty shitty chemo. I'm alive because I just sat there and didn't run away when they came at me with the needle every time. I hated chemo. I won't have it again. My mum is dead because of cancer. She had surgery, chemo, radiotherapy. She was not old. I have so many friends and family die of cancer. My beloved DD had cancer and the most horrendous chemo regime. She was 18. She won't be able to have children. As she said 'if I could climb out the window I would'. Cancer is a fucking crap illness. It's not a battle. It's not a war. It's not pink and glittery. We survive or we die. Sometimes I think we should accept dying rather than have medics force us into treatment . Don't make people feel,bad because they don't 'win' or 'battle'

KennDodd · 04/10/2018 21:08

How would you like it to be described instead?

Can you think of any good fundraising slogans?

KennDodd · 04/10/2018 21:13

I wonder if there have been any clinical studies on the language to use and if visualising it as a battle makes any difference to survival rates? I remember an uncle had cancer years ago, he had meditation sessions telling him to visualise his white blood cells as knights on horseback coming to attack and kill the cancer cells. I wonder I'd this approach was backed up by any kind of research?

SillySallySingsSongs · 04/10/2018 21:14

@Namechangeforthiscancershit I have the book so will let you know how I get on with it.

Susiesue61 · 04/10/2018 21:17

I definitely think YANBU. I work in palliative care and 'fighting' is one of my pet hates. My patients who die have not done so through their choice or lack or fight. One of our ladies today told our team that the cancer research ad made her really distressed because it talks about fighting/winning a battle.

Namechangeforthiscancershit · 04/10/2018 21:26

SillySally (that seems rude!) thank you!

iVampire · 04/10/2018 21:29

I think YANBU

I have cancer. I spend s log of time with other people who have cancer.

We all hate the fighting terminology. Sometimes we say this. Bit only on places like fairly anonymous chat rooms. Because in RL we are often too polite, or just too tired/fed up to tackle it.

We know it’s ‘well meaning’but it’s a rhetoric that’s almost entirely a sop for the bystander,

fluffypudcats · 04/10/2018 21:32

As I went down for emergency brain surgery for a large brain tumour last year, I made my mum promise that if I died, they weren't allowed to use that phrase at all. I find it so offensive - if I'd died, did that mean I hadn't tried hard? I wasn't trying. I was living. I wasn't girding myself up to fight it, I had no say.

DobbyLovesSocks · 04/10/2018 21:40

YANBU. I also hate the breast cancer games. Someone forwarded one to me a couple of years back and I replied to say that I didn't think it was something to make a game out of. They replied that it was only a bit of fun and 'just for us girlies'. I replied back to say that cancer is NOT a game, no-one wins or owes, they simply live or die. Stating your relationship as a bit of fruit does bugger all to raise awareness, how about sharing a post on breast examination? Family members of mine have had cancer so i may be biased

TwitterQueen1 · 04/10/2018 21:43

'Struggle' is more appropriate because it has no win/lose implications. I think it's more accurate too - we struggle with it in so many different ways (toenails!) every. single. day. and sometimes every minute of every single day.

I prefer 'treadmill' to 'journey'. The whole scan / bloods / radio and/or chemo / operation cycle is repetitive, confining and inescapable.