AIBU in Saying Cancer isn't a Battle That You Win or Lose

[NicePieceOfPlaid]

I heard this morning that the mother of a young friend died over night. She'd had cancer for a while but had not responded to treatment.

Friend has posted a brief message on facebook to let friends know. Among the first messages is one saying that the person is sorry she lost her battle. Cancer isn't a fight or a battle. You can't buy a gun and shoot it.

Sometimes the treatment works and sometimes it doesn't. I had cancer and so far the treatment has worked for me. If it comes back I'm not going to blame myself for not fighting hard enough.

It's down to luck. If you die from cancer it wasn't because you were too weak to fight it. It really gives me the rage when it's talked of as a battle. I no longer give to charities who address it in that way.

Why make terminally ill people feel even worse by implying they haven't fought hard enough?

Also sometimes I think I can be detrimental to the patient to have this outlook. My ex's Dad was diagnosed with cancer. He had chemo and eventually the doctors said the chemo wouldn't help and it was just making him feel shit physically. But he was adamant he'd keep going with the chemo as he was going to fight it and beat it - he had Stage 4 cancer of the throat. Chemo did nothing but made his last few months physically miserable. I still don't know how he managed to convince the doctors to keep giving him chemo as they made it clear it wouldn't help. I think accepting when treatment isn't work must be one of the hardest things a person can do when it comes to terminal cancer. But I think his last few months could have been potentially less painful had he stopped chemo sooner. It also made it more painful for his sons (one of whom is now my ex), his parents, sister etc to watch as they knew it wasn't about winning or losing.

But the ‘war’ and the ‘battle’ aren’t about the individual. It’s about beating it as a whole. In the last 20 years survival rates have doubled, by 2034 they will again.

MaryPoppinsPenguins People frequently refer to their own personal battle with cancer. People frequently refer to other people's individual battle with cancer. People frequently say an individual 'lost their fight'.

Why are you so determined to say shit this isn't true?

it can be detrimental

My children lost their father to cancer and I fucking hate the 'battle shit'.

Not long after he died a friend posted that he had got 10 years clear. Amazing news. Then he started posting about how strong he is and how cancer never stood a chance. It was full of people commenting about how strong he is, how he couldn't be defeated by cancer etc.

It felt like someone put a knife through my heart. I understand his happiness, I was happy with him, it was amazing news, but god that hurt to read and I had to stop.

My children's dad accepted he was dying, his last hope was that he would get one last Xmas with our children. He was so certain he would get that. He didn't, and it wasn't because he wasn't strong.

Then he started posting about how strong he is and how cancer never stood a chance. It was full of people commenting about how strong he is, how he couldn't be defeated by cancer etc

I can’t imagine how hard that was for you to read. I’m so sorry for your loss, and your DC’s.

Serbska- I was talking specifically about one event. But be rude as much as you like.

@MaryPoppinsPenguins
TwitterQueen - how is that patronising you? You said something entirely inaccurate so I explained it to you.

I've got to laugh at the sheer stupidity of this post. You really don't get it do you? Thanks you so much for explaining though.... What would I do without your insight?

Funnily enough, I know about trials, I know about SUTC, I know about cancer. If you had bothered to read my original post you would have seen that I object strongly to much of the terminology around cancer, and this is an example.

And ads and campaigns also don't distinguish between those who have cancer and those who might want to raise funds. No-one says "turn the sound down if you have cancer btw - this ad isn't for you...."

I think it’s a cliche used to announce the news without having to go into too much detail but saying just enough.

TwitterQueen - I don’t understand your anger. The people you are all criticising are the people who devote their lives to trying to cure cancer. It’s baffling.

YANBU..OP.

TwitterQueen1 language is important, I get what you’re saying.

MaryPoppins they can devote their lives to trying to cure cancer without using terminology which upsets, distresses or offends people with cancer.

But it is a useful image to some people with cancer. DS used to visualise a battle between the cancer and his immune system.
I don’t think the phrase implies that people who die didn’t fight hard enough. Sometimes your enemy is just stronger or better organised than you. Look at history.

U2 - so sorry to read that - I can imagine how that must have hurt enormously. Thoughtless of your friend to have posted like that. for you.

Marypoppins - perhaps just accept that some people think differently to you and stop trying to tell them that they're wrong?

Hmm I'm not sure they can never offend anyone. Cancer is indiscriminate therefore people's reactions and opinions will also vary.
FWIW I do sympathise with your point of view. However having had cancer twice I would characterise it as a battle. But I agree with you that I wouldn't call any sufferer a loser.

I think that if the person going through it, or their loved one's, wants to describe it that way, then that's fine.

Agreed. My brother died from cancer when we were children. My parents always remembered him as a "wee fighter". Who is anyone else to police their language?

I don't think of it as a battle that is "won" or "lost" due to some special strength or quality on the part of the person with the disease.

Thank you YeTalkShite!

I am not angry with you MaryPoppins just extremely frustrated at your inability to distinguish between what I am actually saying and what you think I'm saying. Let me try and break it down for you....

• I'm not criticising people
• I strongly believe in clinical trials - I've been part of one.
• Fund-raising is absolutely essential (unfortunately)
• Hundreds of thousands of people do fantastic work in treatment, fund-raising, caring, nursing etc.
• SUTC, Cancer Research, Macmillan's etc all to amazing work. HOWEVER, some of their campaigns are deeply insensitive because of the imagery and terminology. Don't mention Brave The Shave.

I AM angry about many of the words and the terminology surrounding cancer - which is what this thread is all about. It is often offensive and upsetting to those of us with cancer. So, as many posters have said, talking about it as a battle, winning/losing/fighting etc is insensitive at best, especially to those who are terminal. No amount of battling or fighting will change the outcome.

Do you understand now?

I hate that phrase. It implies you have a choice and that if you don't 'flight' hard enough you're partly to blame if the treatment doesn't work.
I'm one of the unlucky ones. My cancer has returned and unfortunately is not curable. Does that make me weak? That I didn't battle hard enough?? No way. I want to live. I want to see my DD grow up but apart from taking the treatment offered and looking after my self it's not in my power to 'win'
YADNBU xxxx

I would also add that of course some people like the 'battle' imagery and find it helpful for themselves. I do not want anyone using that terminology about me though.

Okay TwitterQueen - would you rather a whole heap of money and time is spent trying to find an ad campaign that is universally inoffensive. Or would you like that money to fund trials?

Nobody is going to agree on everything.

MaryPoppinsPenguins your continued badgering of TwitterQueen is really unpleasant.

Agree to disagree, but ffs don’t take that tone with someone who is only explaining things from their own perspective. You’re out of order.

YeTalkShite (indeed)... not at all. I think you’re reading it wrong. I was responding to her actually.

I’m not reading anything wrong. Your tone is combative and offensive.

Why you feel the need to respond in such a way, only you know.

You’re out of order.

I feel the same way about the way you’re writing to me.

I was just responding to an AIBU thread with another point of view, isn’t that what it’s for? I understand the perspective, but in terms of the charity position on this, there is a side to present. And I do think that criticising an organisation that is trying its best to ‘beat’ this awful illness is a little pointless. Surely we all want the same thing?

I feel the same way about the way you’re writing to me

Of course you do, because bullies never like to be called out on their behaviour.

Castigating a poster with cancer for sharing their opinion about how language makes them feel, and being combative is a monumentally shitty thing to do.

I’ll bow out now, with an apology to TwitterQueen if I’ve stepped on your toes in any way.