AIBU in Saying Cancer isn't a Battle That You Win or Lose

[NicePieceOfPlaid]

I heard this morning that the mother of a young friend died over night. She'd had cancer for a while but had not responded to treatment.

Friend has posted a brief message on facebook to let friends know. Among the first messages is one saying that the person is sorry she lost her battle. Cancer isn't a fight or a battle. You can't buy a gun and shoot it.

Sometimes the treatment works and sometimes it doesn't. I had cancer and so far the treatment has worked for me. If it comes back I'm not going to blame myself for not fighting hard enough.

It's down to luck. If you die from cancer it wasn't because you were too weak to fight it. It really gives me the rage when it's talked of as a battle. I no longer give to charities who address it in that way.

Why make terminally ill people feel even worse by implying they haven't fought hard enough?

I personally think it stems from the fact that for illnesses like heart disease, doctors say you can do something about it, exercise, eat better, etc. Same with high blood pressure, type 1 diabetes, and other major illnesses.

With cancer, there is no absolute given in terms of what you can do to prevent it. Not eat processed meat? maybe. Avoid alcohol? maybe. Have a healthier lifestyle? maybe. Live in a non polluted area? maybe. etc etc.

So people feel like they are not able to 'fight' it with actual changes in their behaviour or lifestyle, it hits anyone, at any age, of any race, of any size (statistically there are differences but still). So people have come up with this attitude of 'fighting' it. It's my take on it anyway.

And no, I don't like the phrase at all.

I've never thought the term meant the actual person won or lost. I've always understood it to mean that the person's body was fighting the cancer, not their actual being, not their essence. It never occurred to me that it would be associated witj obe person being weaker or stronger of character than another, just that thheir body was unable to overcome the illness.

I think that if the person going through it, or their loved one's, wants to describe it that way, then that's fine.

I've worked in health care and had a lot of personal experience of Cancer and other conditions.

I've seen people bravely ignore how shit they are feeling, the pain etc and carry on engaging with Family life. They battled daily against their symptoms to have a quality of life.

A relative of mine is on the NHS posters. he is in his 60's and has taken up exercise to counteract his health conditions. He has had Cancer, strokes and diabetes. He battles against his health daily. His zest for life is contagious, which is why he was chosen for the campaign and he gives talks, gets involved with Male groups (he had a male cancer) to try to get people feeling more in control.

In the office I last worked in, there were two similar people with diabetes. One did everything they could to reverse their condition, the other didn't and wallowed in their diagnosis.

A neighbour has Months to live, I try to see him and he joked last time that he is now mixing his Oramorph with his cornflakes, so he can keep it down. This was whilst sat in his front garden. He pushes through the pain etc to still be part of the community. His DD took him to buy Halloween decorations, he is setting himself up outside, to still be a part of it.

Do we not fight depression, in the same way?

Does it matter? For those 'fighting' cancer there are better things for people to focus on, like a cure, like better treatments with less side effects, not losing your hair. What term you use is of little use or consequence, or interest, to someone who is in the last days of life.

""With cancer, there is no absolute given in terms of what you can do to prevent it.""

There are with many types of Cancer.

DH is a Dr and says in his experience he finds the survivor label and the language of beating cancer can be really helpful to survivors coming to terms with life after cancer. I think it only works one way though - not helpful at all to think of losing the battle

I think this is the really important distinction

""Does it matter? For those 'fighting' cancer there are better things for people to focus on, like a cure, like better treatments with less side effects, not losing your hair. What term you use is of little use or consequence, or interest, to someone who is in the last days of life.""

^This
And having a benefit system that doesn't penalise and demonise people who are ill or disabled.

YANBU.

I always see it as your body is fighting an illness and unfortunately sometimes the illness is able to be beaten. I think whatever term the actual people affected want to use of fine. I know one woman who calls herself ‘a survivor’ as she had cancer and in her words ‘managed to beat it’

www.theguardian.com/society/2014/apr/25/having-cancer-not-fight-or-battle

This is really well written I think, helps that the late Kate Granger was fully amazing.

YANBU & YABU

Whatever way of thinking works best for people is the one they should use. We're all different, and have different ways of thinking and coping, if some people cope best picturing it as a battle then you have no place to say they shouldn't. Good luck with any on going treatment and I hope you stay well.

Does it matter? For those 'fighting' cancer there are better things for people to focus on, like a cure, like better treatments with less side effects, not losing your hair. What term you use is of little use or consequence, or interest, to someone who is in the last days of life

Why is it one or the other though?

if some people cope best picturing it as a battle then you have no place to say they shouldn't

But this wasn’t about someone who was picturing their treatment like this. It was someone else (presumably and hopefully not someone with cancer herself) writing a message on someone’s Facebook wall after she had died.

It's really interesting to hear your take on it, op. It hadnt occurred to me before, probably because I haven't had to deal with it myself (although have obviously had relatives who have).

I think I probably just saw it as fighting to get through each day of treatment, which completely floors people. In much the same way that people with chronic illness might say it's a battle to get out of bed in the morning.

I agree OP and have always disliked the rhetoric around cancer

YANBU but the language that we have in this situation is very much entrenched in the ‘fight, battle and brave’. I have found myself using similar expressions even though I loathe them.

So don’t judge too harshly those who are trying to express their grief, rage and sense of loss. You are all bereaved today and for that I send my sincere condolences.

YANBU - I hate the 'stand up to cancer' and the boxing/fighting analogy. We have a lot of cancer in our family - it's killed 3 Uncles, my Grandmother, my Mother and my Aunt. Its not about 'standing up to cancer' its about genetics and effective, early treatment.

I'm much rather the campaigns focused on how vital it is to raise money for research, better treatments etc then this 'battle' theme that suggests its down to how hard an individual 'fights'.

There are with many types of Cancer.

Likewise, with many types, there is no "cause" and nothing you can do to prevent it or stop it returning. Some cancers really are just about "luck".

I think it helps people feel as though it's something they can help to fight. It gives a little optimism over something that, sadly, nobody has any control over. It's not meant to imply people weren't 'good enough' to 'win' the fight, just that the terminology gives people the impression that there is a fight to be had, rather than just wait to die in X amount of months/ years. It gets you through chemo thinking you are fighting something while you feel this dreadful. Just a mindset but I thik even the illusion of control can give you hope at a time when hope is so very hard to come by.

I don’t make the jump from using the term “battle” or “losing a battle” to judging people weak or strong.

There are always battles of all types that we can’t possibly win. We’re outnumbered or ambushed. It doesn’t make someone weak or mean they didn’t fight hard enough and I don’t think anyone would ever mean to imply that.

Also even many who “win” the battle come out with parts of their body missing. Often very important parts like their reproductive system or immune system. War wounds if you like.

YANBU.

My DM did everything right - made healthy choices and was fit and active and it still got her. She tried all the treatments she could and was just very very unlucky.

What gets me are the Race 4 Life adverts 'Cancer we're coming to get you'/'You tried to take my mum but she was too tough for you' - I'm all for attacking cancer through generous funding - but the implication that my Mum wasn't tough enough is offensive.

I'm very sorry to hear about your friend OP

YANBU. A friend of mine was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer a few years ago and she became increasingly upset by the 'battle' mentality around cancer treatment. She had no hope of a cure because her cancer was diagnosed too late so she was immediately thrown into 'living with cancer' (something she did with amazing dignity and success).

The problem was, these campaigns sometimes made her feel like a failure because she couldn't 'fight' the disease (and she was an incredibly positive person, always). She couldn't say 'Fuck You Cancer' because cancer became part of her and it was something she had no choice but to live with. It implied to her that when she died she'd have 'failed' to win. She had two young kids and didn't want them to think she had not tried hard enough or had 'lost' something other people had the strength to win. Quite the opposite: she was astonishingly strong and her life was an immense success.

I think I probably just saw it as fighting to get through each day of treatment, which completely floors people.

That's how I see it too. Someone very close to me has being going through chemotherapy for the past few months. For her, it has been a "battle" to keep going and living a normal life. She could very easily have just accepted the limitations, not gone on holiday, not gone shopping, not gone to school events, not gone to family events, etc. But she was determined to just carry on as normal for the sake of her husband, son and elderly mother (son and mother didn't even know she had cancer nor was undergoing chemotherapy!). That is what I think of as a battle - not against the cancer itself as it's in the lap of the Gods what happens with that - it's living life as normal and not letting cancer affect the lives of everyone else around you who depends on you.

I think its up.to the person with cancer and their loved ones which terms they use you cant generalise or speak for others if you dont like the terminology dont use it .

Goingonandonandon really? And what lifestyle changes would you recommend to cure type 1 diabetes?