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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to think SAHM isn't an artist if she doesn't produce art?

266 replies

windygallows · 30/09/2018 11:03

Woman I know has been a SAHM for 25 years but refuses to be called a SAHM and instead claims to be/wants to be called an artist.

Her artistry is more like a hobby that she does every few months. She has built a studio in her backyard to produce art but isn't there much. She has never sold her work, never had a show, never been part of a group show, never had an open house, doesn't have a website. Of course you don't need to do these things to be an artist, but I think producing work is key!

Her DH is part of a sort of posh 'cultural milieu' and I'm sure claiming she's an artist because it's a more acceptable title but come on - can you be an artist if you don't produce art, just like are you a writer if you don't or rarely write or a musician if you don't or haven't produced music?

OP posts:
silvercuckoo · 30/09/2018 14:25

You could be talking about my SIL
Heh, mine too - only mine is an actress.

greendale17 · 30/09/2018 14:26

her DH always referring to 'my wife, the artist'.

^Because he and her are ashamed of saying she is a SAHM. She isn’t an artist at al.

IWannaSeeHowItEnds · 30/09/2018 14:30

I think that being a writer or an artist is about who you are, whereas being a sahp is something you do. It doesn't matter that she hasn't done anything commercial, it's about how she sees herself and since it has zero impact on your life, she gets to decide what she is, not you!
And for all you know, she might have the next Mona Lisa in her studio.

itsbritneybiatches · 30/09/2018 14:38

Piss artist more like

Racecardriver · 30/09/2018 14:39

If she is happier saying she's an unsuccessful arist than a SAHM then let her. It really doesn't make any difference to you does it? By the sound of it she us both.

SuchAToDo · 30/09/2018 14:45

Op you mention that she has been a SAHM for 25 years... surely if that is true then her kids would be adults or late teens?...

Tinkobell · 30/09/2018 14:46

Something's niggling away at you about this woman OP and I can't figure out what it really is or what you're aiming for. Clearly you've established that she's a bit of a sham artist as opposed to a SAHM artist, but so what? What are you seeking here, universal disdain and condemnation. It's a bit pointless.

YouOKHun · 30/09/2018 14:46

@MaisyPops I’m with you on the whole exploitation of women by MLM, it’s a whole other thread (and there is one which I expect you follow).

As for people and their roles, I don’t really care what people style themselves as as I don’t really know what their talents or output is, or their working history. I also think people shouldn’t feel apologetic for being a full time parent or for working full time and it’s a shame people feel so judged.

I think the only time it ever really got on my nerves is when I remember being patronised by a mother at my DS’s school who was an Interior Designer (shopping trips to Chelsea Harbour to choose friends’ new curtains/rearranging friends furniture and getting under the trademen’s feet with ridiculous requests to ‘just move that wall’); very sniffy at my lacklustre NHS job, lots of ‘how dull for you’. I think I did mutter something about hobby jobs that time in order to defend myself!

Goingonandonandon · 30/09/2018 14:56

What does it matter to you? And it's true for many professions.

If you are a professor and stop doing your job for a while except the occasional lecture, you're still a professor. If you are a writer, have published a couple of books and is writing the odd article to keep money coming in, you are still a writer. Same with photographer, you might have been a full time photographer before the kids, work on the odd project for a number of years, you don't stop being a photographer if you carry on doing it once in a while to keep making a bit of money.

You can be judgy about it OP, but it's more of a reflection on you than on the artist in question. Maybe she's not a very good friend? If she was you'd respect her a bit more...

Original poster
windygallows · 30/09/2018 15:07

You can be judgy about it OP, but it's more of a reflection on you than on the artist in question. Maybe she's not a very good friend? If she was you'd respect her a bit more...

Most of the posts on here are 'judgey' and we all put our own perspectives on experiences.

The fact is her DH is a bit 'la dee dah' about her being an artist and it's said as if she's somehow 'better than' a lowly SAHM. I get a tired of hearing about it (we are colleagues) because it's an overexaggeration with a bit of snobbery thrown in.

OP posts:
BigArmo · 30/09/2018 15:11

Piss artist more like
Grin

MaisyPops · 30/09/2018 15:18

YouOKHun
I hear you.
To be honest, I couldn't care less what people do as long as they make an informed choice on what suits them and their family.
I just can't abide the 'oh I'm so swamped being a chef, teacher, cleaner etc. I'm so exhausted I couldn't possibly manage to work' crap as if doing basic living tasks somehow equates to someone's actual career. Equally can't stand the 'oh I couldn't stand the idea of being at home with children all day... It must be so boring an unfulfilling' (from someone who probably does a decidedly ordinary job but likes to act like the world would cave in without them). And I find the pretentious upselling and self-inflated 'I'm a business woman' / 'I'm an artist' when it's someone selling glitter kilner jars on Facebook or being in an MLM.

Make choices. Stand by choices. Don't over inflate to in a bid to puff yourself up. If people choose to continually blow smoke up their own arse then it's hardly surprising if people find it irritating.

mirialis · 30/09/2018 15:35

Maybe her husband actually believes in her art and is not a massive a-hole husband like a few I know in real life who are incredibly dismissive and patronizing wrt their female partners artistic pursuits because they don't bring home the bacon.

Your updates about her taking advantage of her husband's income make you sound even more bitter bitch OP.

theendofeverything · 30/09/2018 15:41

Further discussion elicited that they had not actually had anything published not was anything imminent. So saying they were a writer as opposed to my SAHM was one-upmanship and pretentious

I'm a published novelist and have been a writer for 14 years. For the first 10 of those I had no publishing deal. I was no less a writer then than I am now. But I did used to avoid telling people I was a writer, because of attitudes like this.

Original poster
windygallows · 30/09/2018 15:44

Maybe her husband actually believes in her art and is not a massive a-hole husband like a few I know in real life who are incredibly dismissive and patronizing wrt their female partners artistic pursuits because they don't bring home the bacon.

Mirialis ---- Or maybe it has more cachet and is less embarrasing to say that your wife is an artist than a stay at home mom, especially if you are a bit pretentious. FFS.

Also I don't think it's bitchy to think it's a bit ??? for a woman to rely on a man's income for a quarter of a century or more. Not for me!

OP posts:
FlyingMonkeys · 30/09/2018 15:48

So presumably J K Rowling wasn't a writer until Harry Potter was published. It's all in the eye of the beholder and why crush somebody's aspirations by mocking them? And if she's been a SAHP for 25yrs then presumably her kids have now left home? So she's now not a stay at home parent at all?... Maybe her DH can introduce her as "Katie, my wife who hoovers and scrubs the bog at home as I make all the money"....

BigChocFrenzy · 30/09/2018 15:57

I'd regard someone as an artist if they spend several hours most weeks actually working at their art, even if they are not "successful"

She doesn't have to sell anything commercially to be an artist, imo, or even be much good at it

  • quite a few people in ft jobs at various levels, that they are crap at doing, but they still have the job title.
Deadringer · 30/09/2018 15:58

In Ireland we have a lot of these artists, so called because they draw the dole. Smile

Mumof3dragons · 30/09/2018 16:09

Also I don't think it's bitchy to think it's a bit ??? for a woman to rely on a man's income for a quarter of a century or more. Not for me!

Maybe she prefers not to. Maybe she has an underlying health problem. Maybe she provides family support elsewhere or volunteers at a charity. Maybe she's involved in organisational activities for recreational sports. Maybe they see themselves as a team whereby she oversees the home stuff while he works. Maybe she told him her dream and they are lucky enough to be able to build a studio.

In any case it's none of your business and what you've said is an insult to thousands of women who don't work whilst being the ship commander in every other aspect of life.

JinnyGreenTeeth · 30/09/2018 16:10

Also I don't think it's bitchy to think it's a bit ??? for a woman to rely on a man's income for a quarter of a century or more. Not for me!

You've changed your original complaint, though -- surely this woman, for whom you appear to feel such contempt, is relying on her husband's income regardless of whether she calls herself an artist or a SAHM?

Interested in how you seem to know how many hours a month she spends in her studio and that she relies on her husband's income (rather than having some private source of income via investments, inherited money, a rental property etc...?

You would presumably only know her work schedule and her financial arrangements if you are a close friend of hers, which makes your contempt for her rather nasty.

Original poster
windygallows · 30/09/2018 16:12

mumof3 I don't care if I'm insulting thousands of women who decide they're happy having someone cover their costs. It's not for me. I think it's a risky and dangerous way to live and while it's not a popular view on MN it doesn't mean that it's not allowed. That's not what the post was about though.

OP posts:
roundaboutthetown · 30/09/2018 16:13

windygallows - so, is it this woman who calls herself an artist, or is it what her dh calls her? I'm getting you dislike her dh and find him a tiresome snob, but how on earth do you know her well enough to know what she does in her studio, or whether or not she has been given any private commissions by those in her posh 'cultural milieu', as you call it? And has she done something to upset you, that you seem to want to take her down a peg or two?

There is usually a reason why people use fig leaf explanations for what they do, anyway - eg you might prefer to say you are an artist than that you haven't been able to work for 25 years because you suffer from mental health issues for which art is your therapy. If she finds it embarrassing to call herself a SAHM, then she finds it embarrassing - she's the one who has to work out how she can face the world, not you. Leave people's fig leaves be if they aren't doing you any harm, particularly if you only want to remove them to cause embarrassment.

NameChangedAgain18 · 30/09/2018 16:13

Maybe it’s conceptual art that doesn’t actually need to exist. You shouldn’t be such a philistine, OP.

Original poster
windygallows · 30/09/2018 16:15

jinny I am not a close friend. Her Dh is a colleague and I can only go by what he says.

I get the impression the artist label is more acceptable than SAHM.

OP posts:
newhousenewstart · 30/09/2018 16:15

My SIL used to start many conversations with ' well as a scientist.....'. She was a cookery teacher