AIBU to think SAHM isn't an artist if she doesn't produce art?

[windygallows]

Woman I know has been a SAHM for 25 years but refuses to be called a SAHM and instead claims to be/wants to be called an artist.

Her artistry is more like a hobby that she does every few months. She has built a studio in her backyard to produce art but isn't there much. She has never sold her work, never had a show, never been part of a group show, never had an open house, doesn't have a website. Of course you don't need to do these things to be an artist, but I think producing work is key!

Her DH is part of a sort of posh 'cultural milieu' and I'm sure claiming she's an artist because it's a more acceptable title but come on - can you be an artist if you don't produce art, just like are you a writer if you don't or rarely write or a musician if you don't or haven't produced music?

OP, unless you actually live in her studio, I don't see how you know how much time she spends in there, or how hard she works, even if she's not obviously productive. I don't see any problem with her defining herself as an artist if her work is crucial to her, and I don't think being a SAHM has anything at all to do with it from her POV -- though it seems to be adding some contempt to your attitude to her.

Does it matter? What impact has this on your life? Are you jealous? If so call yourself an artist too and you will both be happy.

I'd be more worried about the fact that she has been a SAHM for 25 years. Is that even possible? Does she take her kids to their places of work, and pick them up again at the end of the day or something? Then take them to do their hobbies

You can easily have a 25yr old and a 2yr old with a few in between

Feefee awesome to be able to doodle money! Ha.

I think it takes a lot for people (especially women) to call themselves artists, probably because of stuff like this thread. I used to play down the things I did until I listened to a Guilty Feminist podcast about how women always play down their skills and talents. It’s a shame.

My DH is like the DH in this thread, in that he always backed me up & was proud of me. All his work colleagues follow me on Instagram & ‘like’ my stuff 😁. If it hadn’t been for him & some lovely friends, I probably wouldn’t be making the money I’m making now.

I expect there were some people along the way who would have previously described me as the OP describes this woman. Oh well. Hopefully she’ll never find out.

Love how people who are called out on their sneering then try and pretend that it's only because they are concerned for SAHMs

Oh who cares. She's not hurting anyone. Mind your own business and find a man to sneer at.

Maybe she's a conceptual artist, documenting society's need to belittle other people's good opinion of themselves. Watch out, this thread might appear in next year's turner prize show.

I’m a sahm and the first thing people ask me is do you work?
Yeh very hard raising my daughter right now. Thing is I love being with her, I have loads of creative hobbies but I don’t go to work. I think it’s fine for her to call herself an artist but I don’t call myself a professional cross stitcher or whatever. But if it makes her happy -who really cares!

Love how people who are called out on their sneering then try and pretend that it's only because they are concerned for SAHMs

Warms the cockles, doesn't it?

OP is absolutely right about how toxic MLMs are - but absolutely wrong in her criticisms of this artist. People are often nasty, weird and ignorant about writing, visual art and performing art: you can't be a proper artist if you do it for pay, you're 'inauthentic' if you consider tailoring your work to what the market wants, yet if you don't make any money, you're not a proper artist...
While there can be problems if someone declares themselves an artist/performer/writer and therefore expects to be supported in every way by family members or a partner (ie to get out of domestic work/childcare, not to have to pursue waged work) while bringing in no money and producing very little 'artwork', a lot of people who write or paint or craft or sing are working towards a goal, fitting it around their other responsibilities and doing no one any harm.

It's strange that he mentions her job so much - in the social circles I move in it feels almost rude to ask people about their jobs - it feels almost like you are trying to size them up, work out them income - I have observed several people dodge the question and it isn't because they are in a junior role. I don't know what a lot of my friend's dh's actually do and I wouldn't ask unless it was relevant to the conversation.

JellyTotCat
I mentioned other views because despite saying quite clearly on a whole range of threads that I'm in favour of women making whatever choices are right for them and their family, it would seem some posters think that expressing issues with how some act means I must hate all SAHP.

I don't think it's a terribly radical view: make whatever choice is right for your family but spare us the talking up like daily tasks are somehow the same as someone doing that job (e.g. me cleaning my house doesn't make me a cleaner / DH doing the garden doesn't make him a gardener).

Selling tat on Facebook isn't being a business woman.
Joining an MLM isnt being an entrepreneur.
Doing your hobby doesn't make someone an athlete or a baker or an artist.
The fact someone might be staying at home whilst making such claims doesn't mean we should pat them on the head and pretend otherwise.

Love how people who are called out on their sneering then try and pretend that it's only because they are concerned for SAHMs Oh yes - I see this a lot.

Indeed. However art is extremely subjective. I’ve seen many artists churn out the same variation of a theme and do very well for it. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

To me the difference between an artist/writer/musician and someone who does those things as a hobby is the intent behind it

BrightLightsAndSound
True.
If someone has started a business, is producing a product, bringing in money and it's their job, then great. (Art is in the eye of the beholder and it's down to taste. I love some art that DH says a 4 year old could have done but I happen to like the colours).

If someone's doing some drawings or crafty bits, not selling them or maybe doing one craft fair selling a few bits then it's a hobby.

A musician making a living is not the same as someone doing the odd open Mic nights. If someone introduced themselves as a musician when they are the latter then they are talking it up.

Sounds like the woman has no purpose but thinks that SAHM tittle doesn't cut it now that her kids are 'grown up'. But she feels useless and has no idea of what to do for 'work'.
My mum was a bit like that. Had tons of craft supplies overflowing everywhere, but never made anything.
But if you asked her what she was doing that week it would be the hardest and most rudest question you could ask her.
It was mostly sleeping, drinking and smoking...

This is irritating me now. There are many artists, working from home, whose unacknowledged work we all see everyday. Commercial graphic artists have designed the labels, posters, whole campaigns and more for the everyday mountain of stuff that overwhelms us everyday. Illustrators have worked on the pages of your children's beloved books, designers have drawn up everything from your furniture to your street signs.This work doesn't create itself and not everyone can do it. I suggest you have no idea how much work she does or doesn't do because she doesn't choose to score social points by telling people about it.

I think it’s really shitty to slag this woman off because you do not see a production line of your version of art.
I describe myself as an artist and I’d hate to think I was being judged to fuck behind my back, which as a sahm I’m judged to fuck anyway about...so it’s a double judge.
I agree there are Some people who have studios and do really bad shit in them but just ignore them.
Like if you described yourself as an administrator am I going to ask for evidence or expect profound knowledge of a specific filing system ? No, so don’t do it to others.

"To me the difference between an artist/writer/musician and someone who does those things as a hobby is the intent behind it"

Define hobby, though?

Many writers and artists have no choice but to have a job to pay the bills, and then concentrate whatever time they can on making art. So, some folks would see them as hobbyists.

If you take that viewpoint, then only the independently wealthy can ever strike out as an 'artist' concentrating solely on their art, because it takes time to be able to eke out the most modest of livings from writing or painting (for example) alone. Many published writers still keep other jobs to earn a steady living.

If someone has started a business, is producing a product, bringing in money and it's their job, then great

Again, you have literally no idea what she is producing or selling in her purpose-built artist's studio. Nor does the OP. You're making up your own narrative to judge this woman.

I describe myself as an artist and I’d hate to think I was being judged to fuck behind my back, which as a sahm I’m judged to fuck anyway about...so it’s a double judge

Quite. Sneering at someone because 'they're a SAHM who thinks they're an artist,' and the head-tilting, 'it's as though they think being a SAHM isn't enough somehow'

All very disingenuous.

Maybe this woman is working on some big project you aren't aware of, OP? Would that be okay? Many works of art, literature, etc took years and years to come to fruition. Who knows what's in her pipeline.

Anyway, aren't we all just daubing on the great big canvas we call Life?

Her husband sounds really proud of her when he refers to her as 'my wife, the artist.' You sound jealous OP.

AbsentmindedWoman
Just thinking about people I know who've left jobs to take their hobby to the next level.
1 spent their time building up their skills and training etc whilst they were still working (but had mentally decided they were leaving their job as soon as they could). They didn't describe themselves as their hobby. Then having built the foundations of their business as essentially a hobby business, made their contacts etc they took the plunge. For a few months they did agency work etc yo top up their funds but the whole shift from job they hated to full time creative job was well planned.

Another left to be a writer. Again, they built their network and honed their skills etc and now have more of a portfolio career (i think that's the right word). They spend a decent amount of time on their stuff for them, love the freedom they have and then also doing copy editing and some freelance SEO type work to pay the bills.

Other friends are musicians. It's not that they do nothing but their own solo projects, more that they are set up as self employed and do a range of things under the musician umbrella e.g. Their own solo bookings, ensemble bookings mixed with private music tuition, running community classes etc. To start with they did barrista work whilst they built the network but now their career is a series of music things.

I would absolutely see them as artists and musicians because that's what they do (even if in the early days they did other things to get them to the point where they built their network)

They aren't independently wealthy. They've worked their arses off to be successful in their fields. I can't view 'I stay at home and play music in my spare room' as being comparable.