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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

...to want to rehome 1 of our dogs before baby gets here?

152 replies

WaveEquation · 30/09/2018 08:44

So, we’ve got 3 dogs and our first baby on the way (due in January). Dog 1 is an ancient old bull terrier mix and the gentlest animal on the face of the earth; he was diagnosed with kidney failure two years ago and has held on with a modified diet but probably won’t make it until the baby comes. Dog 2 is a 9yo rescue greyhound and the absolute omega of the household; a very easy dog who just wants to be in the same room as you, preferably lying on the floor impersonating a carpet. Dog 3 is a lurcher we got a year ago to replace Dog 1, who seemed to be on his last legs even back then. We were told by the rescue charity that he had been a stray and had been rehomed once but was returned after 1.5 years due to destructive behaviour in the house, but needed a home with other dogs. It quickly became clear Dog 3 had been abused, as he was extremely fearful of my father-in-law (nipped him on the wrist when he tried to pet him) and cringes when you raise your arm, etc. He is also extremely aggressive towards dogs he doesn’t know well and lunges & barks ferociously on walks unless we actively avoid other dogs (and he’ll attack if any dog gets within range). Most of the time he likes Dogs 1 & 2 but he has drawn blood from them on about 6 occasions due to resource-guarding—food, toys, his bed, the sofa, and most recently the kitchen bin, which he sometimes gets into despite our best efforts to remember to keep the kitchen door shut. We’ve made huge efforts already to “fight-proof” our lifestyles by not having the dogs around our food, supervising who goes in which bed, etc., but it’s impossible to remove all the things he guards (I mean, poor old Dog 1 needs a bed for his old bones!). He absolutely adores people (except older men until he trusts them) and has been good with kids that he’s met, though he’s never met any under the age of about 5, and of course by that age they’re taller than he is so he clearly can see that they’re higher in the pecking order than he is.

My fear is that when the baby learns to crawl/walk, she’ll try to climb on the sofa or in his bed, or take a toy from him, or walk too close to the kitchen bin, etc., and he’ll bite her. My husband loves this dog to death and thinks we can just teach the baby not to do those things and “be vigilant” but I just don’t think that’s realistic—even one second of lack of vigilance at the wrong time could be a disaster! ...Or he might love the baby and have no issues because all his issues are with dogs. But how will we know unless we try, and how can we take that risk?

I’m all for rehoming the dog (the charity we got him from promises to take a dog back if needed, and I have 2 friends who’ve met the dog and would be willing to go through the charity to adopt him), or if my husband really won’t agree, crating the dog when the baby is around (though I feel this isn’t fair to the dog, who’s a lovely pet in the right circumstances).

What do you think? AIBU? Should we see how it goes? I don’t want to be the one my husband blames for making him give up his dog.

OP posts:
Kardashianlove · 30/09/2018 21:20

DH thinks we can just teach the baby not to do those things I think this would be my main worry. You can’t really ‘teach’ a baby not to do these things. Your DH doesn’t really seem to understand the risk or what babies do which would really concern me.

ThanksHunkyJesus · 30/09/2018 21:27

God what a horrible thing to say about a living creature. You really are some sort of dispicable cunt to come out with that.

Laughing at the irony here.

No way would I have a known aggressive biting dog around a child. He would go straight back to the charity.

Brenna24 · 30/09/2018 21:39

There have been some pretty mean posts on this thread and some pretty ignorant ones too. I have always rehomed animals from rescues or bad situations and I have never had to give one up. I have done a lot of volunteering for rescues, including transport and homechecks and I know how dire the rehoming situation is. I am totally against giving up a pet just because you have a baby on the way but this is clearly not the situation here. The OP isn't talking about rehoming all 3 dogs, just the one who is clearly not going to cope with a new baby. A fear aggressive resource guarder is not a good mix with small child. My last dog was like this and I wouldn't allow children in the house while I still had him, even with baby gates up. You could be in the room and just out of arms reach and you could still be unable to stop him if he made a lunge. For the pp who said if he was fine with the 9 year old he will be fine with the baby, but there is a world of difference between a quiet, sensible older child and a fast moving, small toddler with poor impulse control, especially to a lurcher with a high prey drive. OP, you are being very sensible here, it is not fair on the DDog3, your other dogs, your baby or you. The management would be stressful on everyone and the price for failure too high. Especially given you have clearly chosen your rescue well and have potential other homes to put forward. I wouldn't suggest your in laws though. Baby is likely to be spending a lot of time there. Well done for being the bigger person here. Oh and to the 'why ttc and rehome a dog?' brigade - we started ttc after losing my last dog, did the sensible thing and didn't get another dog and ended up spending years with multiple miscarriages like the OP (OP I am so sorry you have been through this too). We were starting the process for adoption when I was made redundant and decided to enrol on a course to fill in the time going through the adoption process. I couldn't do that course if I was pregnant and joked about invoking the Law of Sod to my advantage and ensuring the next one would stick. I was 18 weeks pregnant when the course started without me. There does come a point where you accept your chances are slim and you stop putting life on hold. Congratulations OP on your pregnancy too. Flowers

ambereeree · 30/09/2018 21:58

I think you know you have to lose the dog. It's just not worth the risk.

BertieBotts · 30/09/2018 22:01

I'd make a last ditch attempt with a positive trainer and if that wasn't successful then yes I think you'd have to rehome. Whereabouts are you in the UK, roughly? I might be able to put you in touch with somebody but only if you're in the right place.

DH isn't being realistic - you can't simply teach a baby not to ever misbehave because they are tiny and don't have the impulse control or understanding to generalise to all situations. I expect even as adults with quite a sophisticated understanding of what might upset the dog, you might have accidentally upset him yourselves - a baby or toddler or young child not only doesn't necessarily have the impulse control to avoid obviously antagonistic behaviour, they simply won't have the depth of understanding to pre-empt all possible triggers. In addition small-child body language and dog body language is at odds fairly often. For example, small children will often put their face right up in another's in greeting or enthusiasm - to dogs, this is an aggressive move. This is a large cause of bites and is why many dog bites happen on the face. The child is simply innocently trying to play/greet the dog and the dog thinks it is being attacked and snaps as a warning.

You can minimise by using the techniques described here: www.dogsandbabieslearning.com/2011/01/24/mamas-dont-let-your-babies-get-magnetized-to-dogs/ - but this won't prevent all possible actions your baby might take which might alarm this particular dog, especially if they involve totally unrelated things like the kicthen bin.

WaveEquation · 01/10/2018 06:29

Thanks, Brenna24 for the kind words. You are right, that is why I worry about a baby but not a 9yo—the older child listened and remembered instructions like “Don’t let him put his nose near your food—say ‘No!’ in your deepest voice,” and “He doesn’t like hugs, he likes it better if you stroke his head.”

BertieBotts, you have really put into words something I was feeling but couldn’t articulate and that article is really helpful. He really does hate it if you put your face near him or try to hug him—shows all the signs of dog distress, turning his head aside and giving the whale-eye, lip-smacking, backing up. Loves being stroked (demands it vociferously at times!) but only on his terms! He wouldn’t like a toddler getting in his face.

That would be great to get a recommendation. I’ll PM you. We did try one trainer recommended by the charity, but we struggled with her techniques. She suggested rewarding him with a treat when the other dogs would approach whatever he was guarding, but it backfired—the other dogs realised we had treats and came over to investigate, which massively triggered his resource-guarding—and we were the resource! It felt like we were setting the situation up for him to bite again. So we went with the charity’s other suggestion which was to control the environment.

I will say, we’ve talked to the charity about him a few times and they were aware of our difficulties. They warned us when we got him that he was fearful of “some big dogs” when out walking (turns out it’s all dogs, even 4 pound miniature Yorkie puppies!), but said he needed to be rehomed with other dogs because in his previous placement through them he had a dog friend that he bonded with and the trouble started in that placement when that other dog died and he became destructive of stuff in the house. They were gobsmacked that he’s drawn blood repeatedly on our other two and pretty much blamed DH for feeding him from his plate, which to be fair he was really bad for. They really encouraged us to keep trying with him with stricter rules in place for all 3 dogs. We really tightened up and DH has 98% stuck to the rules (he sometimes still buckles and slips poor old Dog 1 some food now & then when Dog 3 isn’t looking). That’s been since January (we’ve only had him since August 2017) and I wouldn’t say there’s been any improvement in the dog’s underlying tendencies, as evidenced by the fact that he’s bitten Dog 1 twice since the start of September (once over a dog bed, once over the bin).

OP posts:
Kardashianlove · 01/10/2018 07:13

So we went with the charity’s other suggestion which was to control the environment. which is fine with other adults in the house but just impossible with a baby. They are unpredictable, impulsive, don’t follow directions, want to explore, touch things, grab things, throw things. You can’t ‘teach’ this behaviour out of them, it’s how they learn.

I think the only way to keep the dog would be to separate them with gates,etc at all times even when you’re in the room as what if the baby suddenly reaches for something the dog is guarding.

Booboostwo · 01/10/2018 07:29

As above. While adults can, to an extent control the environment, children will make many mistakes and young children won’t even understand.

The situation with this dog must also be stressing out your other dogs which is not a good environment into which to bring a baby.

Kardashianlove · 01/10/2018 07:39

Good point about the other dogs. You sound like a lovely caring owner OP and very aware of your dogs and their needs.

I think you’re perhaps underestimating the amount of time a baby takes up. I don’t even know how you would manage the stressed dogs behaviour and keeping the other dogs away from what he’s guarding whilst looking after a new born. Looking after a dog without any issues and baby is hard enough never mind a potentially dangerous dog with issues.

WaveEquation · 01/10/2018 07:48

Thanks, Kardashianlove. Yes, I agree completely! I am trying to think realistically about what is and isn’t manageable with a baby.... My every instinct tells me it’s a recipe for a mental health disaster to think of being alone with the baby & dogs on maternity leave, feeling like my baby’s safety may be at risk if I let down my guard for a nanosecond. I am trying to communicate this with DH because he has less experience with young babies than I do! Of course, thanks to pregnancy hormones I cry when we talk about it, so I’m pretty sure he thinks (though he hasn’t said it outright, wise man!) that my fears are the irrational product of my hormones.

OP posts:
ThanksHunkyJesus · 01/10/2018 07:53

It basically comes down to whether your dh would rather keep an aggressive dog that has bitten people, or if he would rather know that his tiny defenceless baby isn't at risk of getting bitten or mauled by this dog.

Your dh is an idiot. If this dog attacks, your baby could very easily be killed or seriously injured and left with lifelong scars. This is ENTIRELY preventable.

WaveEquation · 01/10/2018 08:06

Haha, yes, I said to him on Saturday night, “Are you willing to take this risk, that our little baby girl could be scarred for life or killed?!” and he said, “Yes, because there is no risk! We have no evidence that he would be aggressive with a baby just because he’s been aggressive with the other dogs!”

It is true he has never bitten a person... except when he nipped my FIL when he first met him because he is (it turns out) really scared of older men until he gets to know them.

OP posts:
ethelfleda · 01/10/2018 08:15

To be honest, I’m fast starting to believe pets are quite a burden when you are dealing with a newborn baby, even if you love them

This is very true, if an unpopular opinion.

I would also rehome.

ethelfleda · 01/10/2018 08:16

Has the dog ever been around a baby/small child? If not, you won’t know how he reacts until he is.

WaveEquation · 01/10/2018 08:23

Ethelfleda, not really. We had a friend visit for about 20 min. with a 9mo baby. She was on her mother’s lap the whole time. He was happy to come over and sniff her and say hi, and she (under supervision from her mother) patted him on the head. He was fine then. Whether he’d be the same if she were mobile and got near one of his guarded resources, there’s no way to know.

OP posts:
Kittykat93 · 01/10/2018 08:35

Some people on this thread are ridiculous but nothing I wasn't expecting when I saw what it was about.

For what it's worth, OP I think you should rehome. It's clear you love your dogs, but the baby must come first and if there is any chance of harm then obviously you must do the right thing. Even better that you've got a couple of friends who could look after him.

I was put in an awful position when I was pregnant, we had to rehome one of our lovely dogs as she was just crazy, destructive, and also began attacking other dogs and also snapping at us. It broke my heart as I loved her so much, but I couldn't take the risk of her hurting the baby. We paid for two dog behaviourists who both recommended rehoming, I still think of her every day, it was the hardest decision I've ever had to make, and I can't stand it when people come on these sort of threads just to make the op feel worse than they already probably do. And this is coming from someone who is a big animal lover and usually hate to hear of people giving up their animals.

Good luck op Thanks

ichifanny · 01/10/2018 09:05

It’s unfortunate that you got a new dog just before ttc but it is what it is , I’d never take any chances with my baby . I’m 3 weeks post giving birth and I’m at that horrible stage where my older kids are bringing home viruses and slobbering all over the baby and it’s very stressful worrying about her . It would be intolerable worrying about a pet at this stage , even the best behaved of animals would be stressful with a newborn in the house never mind a dog that’s an unknown quantity . Don’t take the risk OP .

Branleuse · 01/10/2018 09:06

if it wasnt for the fact that some of the dog-weirdos on this thread regularly advocate for keeping vicious aggressive unpredictable dogs around young children, then their deluded passion would actually be funny.

KindergartenKop · 01/10/2018 09:17

It sounds to me that you find his behaviour a bit much even without a baby. With a baby and a dog you need to be watching all the time. How can you do that with three dogs? If he has already shown aggression to a human then you can't trust him.

Gabilan · 01/10/2018 09:37

he said, “Yes, because there is no risk!

He's deluded. Any dog is a risk around babies. And if he was initially feeding the dog off his plate despite knowing its problems around food then he is a fool, and that's being kind.

The dog needs to be rehomed with someone who really understands canine behaviour - and I'd veto anyone going on about dominance and pecking orders.

I hope it works out well for all of you OP. Sometimes rehoming is kind and right.

Booboostwo · 01/10/2018 10:47

But the dog doesn’t need to be aggressive with the baby to cause harm. My resource guarding dog bit me twice by accident. The first time she attacked my other dog who was sitting behind my legs and bit my leg by mistake. She still broke skin through a pair of jeans so it was quite a bite. The second time she went for the cat who jumped on the sofa and I put my arm up instinctively and she bit my arm. A toddler would have been just at the right height to get bitten on the face.

And you can never control everything with a reactive dog. One time I opened a fridge and a cake fell out on the floor. The reactive dog was closest to the food, but she turned away from it, run across the room and attacked the other dog anyway.

Kardashianlove · 01/10/2018 11:25

It is true he has never bitten a person... except when he nipped my FIL when he first met him because he is (it turns out) really scared of older men until he gets to know them. so it’s not true then he has bitten a person.

This is a reactive dog who sadly didn’t have a good start in life causing him to aggressively guard things, bite dogs and bite people.

You DH saying there is no risk is massively concerning. How can you rely on him to protect your baby if he won’t even acknowledge the risk.

You have to ask yourself, is it manageable to manage the 3 dogs behaviour with a newborn?
How much strain will it put on you to do this?
Is it fair on all 3 dogs?
Is it fair on the baby?

Most importantly, is the risk of harm to the baby real? Weigh up the risk against the consequences if something did happen to your baby. Is it a chance you are prepared to take?

mingebags · 01/10/2018 11:32

You need to find a loving home for this dog, because if you're thinking of getting rid of him, you're not giving him the love he deserves. And never make the mistake of getting a new dog to "replace" one - that is not how it works, and it's massively unfair to the new dog.

GinIsIn · 01/10/2018 11:40

I am of the "animal brigade" that keeps being disparagingly mentioned on this thread. I would have rehomed long before now, nevermind being pregnant. There's no way I could keep a dog that had already injured my existing dogs. You have a responsibility to them too and shouldn't have let it go on this long, really.

PuddinginPerth · 01/10/2018 12:36

Your husband thinks that you will watch your baby at all times to prevent the dog from attacking it??? Are you kidding me?

You aren’t going to stop the baby from crawling to the bin or the sofa and you don’t know when the dog might attack it.

I wouldn’t even tell your husband and just get the dog put down.