Social worker says my niece should sleep in bed with me if my partner is in the bed

[newmummy0094]

I've posted questions on here quite a lot recently about my niece. For those who haven't seen them last week my sister had a breakdown and me and my partner have taken her in. This isn't the first time this has happened but it now seems more permanent. My sister suffers from PND which is where this came from. My niece also lived with us for nearly a year when she was two. She is four now.

So me and my partner had a meeting with our new social worker today. Everything went great apart from one thing. She was asking how my niece is coping. So I said she is doing well apart from at night. At night she gets very bad separation anxiety. I think this is because my sister had her breakdown at night. My niece was in her bedroom terrified. Then a stranger took her away to the police station. She then sat there for hours alone with strangers.
Anyway I said to the social worker that she was sleeping in bed with us (me and my partner.) the social work seemed to sit up and listen at this point. She then asked if I was always in bed when my niece and partner in bed together. I said usually but obviously not always. She seemed to go really funny then.
At one point my partner went out of the room to make us another cup of tea. When he did the social work whispered to me 'you really shouldn't allow your niece and partner in bed together'
I was a bit shocked as I've never seen anything wrong with it.
We may be adopting my niece and if we were her actual parents there wouldn't be a problem.
Am I really being unreasonable to have her in bed with us?
What would you do?

re 'informed opinions'.

I think in general you would be better posting on the Fostering or Adoption boards. You won't get so many responses, but the quality will be higher.

You can apply to be her guardian, this will give you pr, or you can apply for residence order, social services should discuss this with you before adoption. If she is adopted through local authority she will be subject of care order which gives them pr, you may wish to avoid this or be joined to the proceedings. Not sure about private adoption, you need legal advice if it comes to that, but you need to know the position.

You cannot have a non related child in bed with you . We are foster carers and adoptor and it is a total no no in terms of safeguarding. So you must comply with this or it will go against you if you want to adopt.
You just say of course we will stop the practice and we didn't realise etc etc.
As long as you take on board the comments and act on them you will be fine.
As it is you have no parental rights over your neice and so are in a vulnerable position legally.
I am not suggesting for one minute that what you are doing is abusive or that your partner is any kind of risk but unfortunately those are the rules in fostering and similar arrangements. Once she is adopted you can do as you please re the issue.
Could you put a second bed on the floor in her room and sleep in there with her so she knows you are there. Haven't rlft as haven't time but I imagine all usual suggestions of nightlights etc been suggested and you could run a tape recorder during the day and record normal family life and chit chat. This could be quietly playing in the background if she wakes to reassure her . It may help her to settle off again.
Anyway she is lucky to have you and I hope all works out well for you all.

If you adopt through local authority they will NOT have PR . You will hold parental responsibility and that cannot be reversed. Adoptions cannot be overturned in this country. If you get an SGO ( spec gaurdship order ) you will share PR with the birth parents BUT have the overriding day so you are in control. That is the legal position you are in with regards to your neice.

Sorry, if child is adopted thru local authority they do it by care proceedings and they do have pr. the natural parents keep pr until it is granted to adopters.
Op has not got pr at the moment, that's why I suggested legal advice and try to avoid care proceedings. Guardianship is usually better unless contact is completely cut with natural parent, unlikely in a family placement.
Op clearly is not a formal foster parent, or she would be trained and approved to look after other children, she is a kinship career and should not rely on social services to ensure her legal rights, they will concentrate on child welfare (rightly) and what is cheapest, gives them control (may not be what you think is right).
Good luck op your niece and sister are lucky you are there, make sure you get support, it's nor easy.

Oh sorry you made it sound like after adoption. I stand corrected Missing.
However after 12 months of your neice living with you op you can apply direct to the courts for an adoption order thereby avoiding that scenario. The courts will ask soc ser adop team to assess you but will make the decision on whether it is granted or not so this could be a good way to go.

If the child's mother is married to her partner, I don't know if the OP has said if this is the case,? Both parents will automatically have PR, this includes the unborn child, so it is not just the mother's decision to relinquish for adoption.

As others have said, without more information, e.g. was child removed under an Emergency protection order, is currently under a voluntary care order, any child arrangement (previously Residence Order) in place, Why is adoption being discussed when s a SGO, would be the logical answer etc

@IhatetheArchers
My sister is married to my nieces father. But he would just go along with what ever my sister suggested.

Does your sister want you to adopt ?

I think one of the hardest things about this thread is the lack of awareness of the impact on children of being removed from their birth parents. It’s not as simple as “she spends lots of time here and view my partner as her dad, her mum is poorly and dad can’t be arsey”, this child and the unborn baby will experience the separation as a significant trauma, regardless of how early they’ve been removed. They’re actual human beings, it’s not ok for Dad to just go along with whatever mum says, they’re his children too and he has parental responsibility for them - to be honest I’m surprised sw are supporting a kinship care arrangement when birth dad is presumably in the family home much less that they’re considering adoption.

In any event OP, whatever the current or future legal status of the children, it will confuse your niece to be sharing a bed with you and your partner, she’s already vulnerable and has had significant disruption - putting her needs first, I’d be finding another way to comfort her. Perhaps a blanket or soft toy that her mum has been sleeping with or that smells like home might help her settle.

I have to say, as a SW it seems very unlikely that they are looking at adoption if the child has two parents both with PR. Maybe it is different in England (i am based in Scotland) but this would be a case of kinship and it would be a residence order that would be advised. Then you would have some rights and the parents would retain their PR.

It is a massive deal to remove PR through adoption or long term fostering. Courts have really tightened up on for the thresholds for adoption and will only remove PR if it is absolutely the best thing for the chid and there is no chance the parents will be able to care for the child.

Are you sure adoption has been mentioned OP?

Whatever has been said on this thread and as helpful as people have tried to be, OP needs real life advice based on her specific situation. The adoption board is a really good place to start though.

I think you need to phone the social worker newmummy and get some clearer advice as you seem to be confused but it’s their role to ensure you know what’s going on. People online can only give advice based on what you’ve told us but the social worker will know everything about the status quo. Good luck! :)

I think your partner is vulnerable TBH, as well as the child. This little girl has a turbulent past and is likely to have a turbulent adolescence. The risk of her making false accusations is very real. Do what the SW says.

"The risk of her making false accusations is very real"

Because the most important person here is the man....of course.

Bert No it isn't because the man is the most important. But with fostering/adoption some children do transfer previous ills onto current carers, or are just so emotionally traumatised they lash out.

The SW rules protect the child and the carers.

I agree, Mishap - and I think in this case it's a pertinent point to make. The OP needs to understand that the SW advice is there to protect everyone, not only the child and TBH I don't think that she had considered that aspect. (Which is fair enough, unless you have had training in fostering or adoption, you are unlikely to have considered the scope for traumatised children to make false allegations against carers that can have a devastating impact for all involved)

Many years ago I was participating in safeguarding training. A very wise, experienced and sensible SW told us that it is felt inappropriate for a female child to sleep with a male adult. We were doing a quiz about what we each felt was acceptable and what wasn’t. The reason she gave was males can and do have erections particularly early morning when waking. This actually makes sense to me. It would dreadfully sad and possibly distressing if your niece was to see this inadvertently.

Bertrand I don't think anyone, bar maybe one early PP, has suggested lying to SS, or keeping quiet and continuing to share a bed. I think that when PPs have suggested toeing the line or playing the game, they mean actually carrying out the advice given.

@flapjackfairy
Yes she does

Your niece will be staying with you under Regulation 24/25 so you and your partner will be regarded as her foster carers until the long term plan becomes clearer. It isn’t acceptable for children looked after to sleep in the same bed a foster carers, even when its familt. Speak to your SW about putting a camp bed in the room for DN to sleep in if she comes in during the night. Otherwise, it’s best to try to settle her in her own room.