Social worker says my niece should sleep in bed with me if my partner is in the bed

[newmummy0094]

I've posted questions on here quite a lot recently about my niece. For those who haven't seen them last week my sister had a breakdown and me and my partner have taken her in. This isn't the first time this has happened but it now seems more permanent. My sister suffers from PND which is where this came from. My niece also lived with us for nearly a year when she was two. She is four now.

So me and my partner had a meeting with our new social worker today. Everything went great apart from one thing. She was asking how my niece is coping. So I said she is doing well apart from at night. At night she gets very bad separation anxiety. I think this is because my sister had her breakdown at night. My niece was in her bedroom terrified. Then a stranger took her away to the police station. She then sat there for hours alone with strangers.
Anyway I said to the social worker that she was sleeping in bed with us (me and my partner.) the social work seemed to sit up and listen at this point. She then asked if I was always in bed when my niece and partner in bed together. I said usually but obviously not always. She seemed to go really funny then.
At one point my partner went out of the room to make us another cup of tea. When he did the social work whispered to me 'you really shouldn't allow your niece and partner in bed together'
I was a bit shocked as I've never seen anything wrong with it.
We may be adopting my niece and if we were her actual parents there wouldn't be a problem.
Am I really being unreasonable to have her in bed with us?
What would you do?

Absolutely Threadastaire but the new pregnancy would be subject to a separate, new assessment at least that would be the case in Scotland where I’m in practice. Permanence wouldn’t necessarily be considered this early on in a pregnancy - I’ve know pregnant women to be pregnant while another child is going through permanence planning and go on to keep the baby despite the older child being placed for adoption.

They won’t be able to do a parenting assessment if your sister is sectioned. They cannot know yet, neither can you know if you’d even be approved.

@GreatDuckCookery
Yes the sw thinks this will end in adoption. Because of the amount of times my sister has been ill and unable to care for my niece.

Your sister surely will not have the ability or mental capacity to consent to a voluntary placement.. This isn’t my exact area, although I have some knowledge so I accept I may be mistaken.

I’d think if she’s been sectioned, legal capacity would be questionable.

OP, I wouldn’t take the word of a young, inexperienced SW who whispers things to prospective adopters when the other leaves the room.

You need legal advice.

@SunnySkiesSleepsintheMorning
I know but at the end of the day if my sister doesn't get better it is me looking after my niece or she will go into the care system. I would literally go through ten years of assessments and training if it meant she could stay with us.

You’ve not said, is there a care order? Who has PR?

@SunnySkiesSleepsintheMorning
We don't have a care order.
I don't actually know who has parental responsibility if I'm honest.

I know this make me seem incompetent.

This thread has turned into something completely different to what you asked OP. Please don't feel the need to keep explaining your situation as I'm sure it's already complicated enough. Nobody will ever understand through here how your sister is or isn't coping.
Your niece and unborn niece or nephew are so lucky to have you to save them from the care system.
You and your partner should be very proud of yourselves!
I hope for the best for everyone involved x

You would know if you had PR, OP.

Maybe next time you see the SW you could speak to her about getting it, so that you are able to make meaningful decisions for your niece

You really need legal advice and also advice from people who’ve been through this. The adoption board is full of kind, caring, very intelligent and knowledgeable people who will advise you. It’s worrying you haven’t been given the correct advice e.g. why they are discussing adopting and not a Special Guardianship Order? who has PR? under what law she is living with you? your rights and responsibilities and so much more. Both you and your partner must be guided by the social worker and educated on how to care safely for this little girl who is clearly traumatised by her experiences.

Sunnyskies your questions suggest you don't know the system. Mum has PR (automatic) op hasnt specified if dad has PR. OP won't have PR as this would only be conferred through a court when permanence is agreed. If Op is caring for a child as an approved kinship carer then it's likely the local Authority will share PR with the mum and the Op will have delegated authority for day to day caring tasks but not PR.
(it is possible that the Op could be caring for the child under s.20 agreement in which case the LA wouldn't share PR, but given the severity if that happens it should only be very temporary)

@jellycatspyjamas I agree there would be a new assessment of mum, just that it could potentially be very brief. I practice in England and pre birth assessments are expected to be started after 16 or 18wks and concluded within 10-12 weeks, potentially less if an older child has been removed. If it's a situation where there's been a gap and the potential for change (eg an older sibling removed historically under different circs) then courts would look favourably on an interim order at home and further assessments. If there has been a recent removal and a history that suggests limited likelihood of change then the courts don't usually give much time for assessment and permanence decisions are made quickly.

I don't know the legal position re adoption etc, but from other threads by the OP her niece stayed with them at least 1 night a week, before her sister had her latest breakdown, to give her sister a break. So has her own bedroom there. Also the niece's father very rarely has anything to do with the niece e.g. doesn't seem capable of looking after her on his own. He priorities his wife over his little girl.
So the niece is used to sleeping at OP's house, so I assume that is why SS were happy for her to stay there when OP's sister was sectioned.

I would assume Dad does have PR for the niece as in a previous thread he was able to overrule the OP on which school the child attends.

Not RTFT but as ridiculous as it is this is the world we live in and they only have your nieces interests at heart. Could you go and sleep with her in her room, that way she will get used to her room, instead of yours. Start by staying in their all night and then after a while stay with her while she goes to sleep and then leave, if she wakes in the night go back to her eventually she should feel comfortable in her room, knowing that if she needs you, you will be there.

Thread I think you’ve misunderstood me and perhaps were a little rude in your assertion when I clearly said it wasn’t my area. I understand the mother has automatic PR. It wasn’t clear until OP’s post at 23:43 that there wasn’t a care order. I was asking a list of questions in general as the OP did not appear to have been given ANY information. I was trying to establish what she knew, I was asking her, not telling her the situation. As I said and, as you can see, there is very limited information.

So the dad is involved?
It would be unusual for a woman who will have a 3 month old baby, to have another baby placed with her by SS. And also a traumatised 4 year old. This would be too much for nearly anyone to properly care for all 3. Maybe OP you need to clarify this with SS?

Also OP, you say your DS has said she does not want her baby, and was sectioned a week ago. Obviously anyone who is sectioned is not thinking clearly about the future. So she may change her mind.

And please will people stop putting the potential hurt feelings of an adult about the need for safe care if a vulnerable, traumatised 4 year old? And stop encouraging others to lie to social services.

So SW have just placed this child with you without any court order? On what order has the child been removed from her mother?

I am struggling to understand how and why SW would think you are going to be able to cope with a vulnerable little girl, your own baby and your sisters baby.

But then they will know for sure whether you'll be suitable after you've been through your assessments but obviously it's the judge that has the final say.

@sunnyskies I don't get your point sorry, a care order wouldnt give the Op PR? There is no way the Op would have PR in this scenario that's why I assumed you weren't familiar with that aspect. I didn't mean to cause offence.
Whether the LA have a care order or not should (assuming the LA is following guidance) be a fairly moot point because from the info the Op has given the placement is still very new and its not a scenario that should be sustained under s.20 for any length of time, so the expectation would be the LA will be seeking an interim care order.

Oh and if it seems like I'm reading too much into that, I'm going on some info that the Op shared in the other thread!