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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU - DP and shaving legs

380 replies

LegHair · 27/09/2018 21:26

Am long time lurker and first time poster.

Was having a bath this evening, with DP sat in the bathroom chatting. Somehow ended up in a row about me not shaving my legs “because you know I like it and we should make the effort for each other”.

Haven’t shaved legs in some time, because quite frankly I have better things to do with my time and rarely wear shorts or dresses that show off my legs. Always shave on holiday or when wearing dresses etc.

My point is that I want to be made to feel sexy and loved no matter what I choose to do with my body which is how I try to be with DP in the relationship.

So mumsnet jury - who IBU?

OP posts:
mathanxiety · 30/09/2018 02:55

Since when does feminism mean you don’t make an effort. I’m an ardent feminist and I love wearing make up, doing my hair, wearing clothes that show off my curves. To me feminism is little to do with what women WANT to wear or do with their bodies and everything to do with how they’re treated.
Strongmummy

So why do you call grooming, etc. 'making an effort'?

There are many contradictions in your statement.

The whole point of the OP's complaint is that she was treated as if her body was a canvas on which her H could project his fantasy/wishes/preconceived notion of what she should look like. Not her own body to groom as she pleased, for her own satisfaction, but a body that she needs to groom to his standards.

Sadly, the OP's H is not the only man to make the fundamental mistake of thinking women should perform for them - 'make an effort' for them - by means of their appearance. You fell into that trap yourself with your use of the phrase /making an effort'.

Women shouldn't have to go around proving by the effort they make to appear attractive that feminists are not a bunch of rabid man-haters.

HelenaDove · 30/09/2018 03:10

This thread has been mentioned on another thread in Relationships

here ..........................

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3378986-This-question-is-for-the-men-of-MN?pg=1

CantankerousCamel · 30/09/2018 08:51

I was thinking about this last night and the concept of ‘making an effort’

My husband and I both ‘make an effort’ by going to different sporting clubs (he does martial arts, I do CrossFit) and having something to do/talk about

I suppose I do expect him to ‘make an effort’ as in I expect him to make and have the time to do things like the DIY he has agreed to do or make an effort to fit in events he has promised with the kids.

I, similarly, make an effort by making things for our camper, or by engaging in different activities and gaining new skills. We both watch a mini series/film/programme on our nights off together and make an effort not to just sit on our phones.

It’s a good set up but one in which the concept of ‘making an effort’ isn’t rooted in image.

Verbena87 · 30/09/2018 09:18

camel I love your description of ways to make an effort (and am wondering from the other thread how your camper bunting turned out Grin).

merlotmummy14 · 30/09/2018 09:21

"I'll shave my legs when you drop 2 stone"

poppy54321 · 30/09/2018 09:45

I don’t know why it matters but it does a bit. My husband gets rid of his chest hair despite the fact that I prefer it being hairy as it used to be. Yes it’s his choice but it’s kind of disappointing. So I guess if it was me I’d go with his preference for your legs even though it might be disappointing for you that he feels that way. I’d be grateful if my husband went with my preference, it would make me feel like he wanted to please me.

NikNakPaddyWack · 30/09/2018 09:52

To all those saying it takes an extra 2 minutes in the shower, you clearly don't have that much in the first place! With dark, thick hair, before I had mine lasered, it was a half hour job, and I had a five o clock shadow and stubble within 8 hours. I also had loads of problems with ingrowing hairs. It felt nicer when I left it to grow and my partner didnt mind a jot. But with society's expectations and my own conditioning i decided to have them lasered. It literally changed my life. I had so much more time to spend on more important things. 10 years later and it now takes me 2 mins to shave the stragglers, which I do about every 3 months, usually if I'm going swimming

But now, my 10 yr old DD is starting to ask questions as she gets hairier with the onset of puberty. I am starting to regret the choice of having them lasered. Instead i find myself wishing i had challenged society's expectations of hairless women and paved a way for her to be able to feel comfortable showing her legs and not getting ridiculed for it.

Now she's in the same position i was in at that age, desperately wanting to be 'normal'. It makes me sad that in a years time, at the age of just 11, she will either be navigating the same ridiculous prejudices expressed on here or spending precious time removing body hair if she doesnt want to be seen by her peers (or it would appear from this thread, some of their parents!) as 'vile', 'grim' and 'disgusting'. Sad

Strongmummy · 30/09/2018 11:03

@camel, but you do realise that the ability to make an armoured car from a trunkee while deadlifting is not everyone’s definition of making an effort. Indeed, I do yoga, weights and sing opera. That’s not making an effort for my husband in my mind. That’s just making me happy. If I’m making an effort for my husband I’m doing something for him, that he likes

Strongmummy · 30/09/2018 11:10

@mathanxiety - grooming is making an effort coz it takes effort to groom. Taking that time on yourself and enjoying the results yourself and knowing others enjoy seeing those results is not at odds with feminism.

The OP should be able to do whatever she wants with her body, including not shaving. However she can’t demand her husband finds it sexy if she has hairy legs coz he doesn’t find hairy legs sexy!!

There are no contradictions in my statement at all

CantankerousCamel · 30/09/2018 11:15

strong

Sounds like an effort to me.

The point is not that what we have established as making an effort is the important thing for everyone, but that making an effort is different for everyone and, if it is solely based in image and/or in making women look like they’ve never gone through puberty, it’s worth analysing that.

It would be nice if society valued women on the effort they put into developing their minds, or loving a sport, or making stuff.

Instead society only values women if they look a certain way or perform very rigid gender ideals. This is demeaning to women and also a bit of a fools errand. We will ALL get older, wrinklier and more lined, the pressure to look younger will only increase as it becomes more difficult.

Whereas skills you develop, things you learn, books you read are far more longlasting and actually make for better relationships. You will get more pleasure speaking to your partner than looking at them.

Let’s be judged on our minds, not how we look or how we conform

straightjeans · 30/09/2018 11:15

Suggest that you both shave your legs. See how that one goes down.

Bluelady · 30/09/2018 11:24

Camel, I agree with much of what you say (I quite often do) but the flaw in your argument is that a lot of women care what they look like for themselves.

I'm a lifelong feminist or at least have been for over 40 years but how I look is part of my identity. I love clothes (can't help myself, my mum and gran did too), look ill without make up and like a witch if I don't get a decent haircut. So to me th time I spend on my appearance isn't wasted.

I defend wholeheartedly every woman's choice to look as she wishes and would never condemn anyone who doesn't care how she looks and can't see the point of putting any effort into her appearance. It's not for me though, I enjoy my clothes and makeup and will continue to do so to my dying breath, I suspect.

Strongmummy · 30/09/2018 11:36

@camel, I absolutely agree with you.

I think however that the majority have certain physical turn on and turn offs and you can’t demand your partner finds you sexy if something you’re doing is one of his/her physical turn offs

Strongmummy · 30/09/2018 11:38

Just as an FYI, despite wearing make up and loving clothes etc....etc....I have the thickest leg hair ever. I actually prefer smooth legs (the look and the feel) and so does my husband I’m just fucking lazy 🤣🤣

CantankerousCamel · 30/09/2018 11:47

At what point have I suggested people shouldn’t take care in their apperaence?

Bluelady · 30/09/2018 11:49

You said it was a fools' errand.

CantankerousCamel · 30/09/2018 11:59

Yes, to have the ‘making effort’ aspect of your relationship based upon looks IS a fools errand.

This and nothing else I said has anything to do with what people do for them selves. In fact I care a lot about my image. I care about not looking prepubescent first and foremost

Bluelady · 30/09/2018 12:03

Isn't that just one aspect of making an effort in your relationship, though? As well as all the other things you do.

God, I'd love half a chance to look prepubescent! 😉

Alice786 · 30/09/2018 12:33

I agree with this also. I just meant some people make it into a feminsit issue.

SheGotBetteDavisEyes · 30/09/2018 12:40

I just meant some people make it into a feminsit issue

The ingrained idea that women should be expected to remove their body hair to appear aesthetically 'acceptable' to the world IS a feminist issue for many people.

CantankerousCamel · 30/09/2018 12:49

Again, I’m confused. I’ve made it quite clear there are many ways to make an effort in relationships and I don’t understand why appearance is the only sicuslly recognised one.

I don’t understand why social scripting insists that youth and prepubescence is ‘beauty’ and why we all go along with that.

Wrinkly smiles, hairy legs and post child bearing bodies can be and are JUST as beautiful as any other bodies. The only reason you would insist my words reject beauty in relationships as important, is if you reject those forms of beauty too. Assess WHY you reject them. Assess what that does to your self awareness and well being.

Now do the same for intelligence and strength.

squeekums · 30/09/2018 12:51

Your body, your choice
Sure he can have a preference to what he likes but he has no right to get angry or demand you shave anything at all.
Like i know dp likes smooth legs, so do i on myself as i hate the feeling of hair. But if he ever demanded i do it during the times i let it go a few weeks, he would have me going off at him.

To the women in this thread who deem other women vile for not shaving, you are part of the sexist culture problem. You hold as much blame as any male who says the same and wants to put down women for their natural state

Bluelady · 30/09/2018 13:12

Camel, for whatever reason, I compare my face 30 years ago with now and I know which I'd rather have.

Prizing youth is inherent, and it's why the very young of every species are so appealing. Intellectually I couldn't agree with you more but I can't translate that into liking the signs of age on my face. I guess, despite my feminist politics, I'm just vain!

And really enjoying discussing this with you, btw.

CantankerousCamel · 30/09/2018 13:23

Blue

I don’t think it is even scripted into every culture to revere youth, let alone all animals.

In many cultures wisdom is revered.

Plus, even if every animal in the world (though they don’t) revered youth, I would still question our obsession with it from a feminist perspective.

As discussed earlier, men are perceived to improve with age, this is much to do with the social scripting of men relating to their wisdom, their intelligence and their experiences. It is the opposite for women and we must question why. I went to s talk with germaine Greer recently and it struck me how absolutely pixie like and beautiful she is. Her age has added to that, not detracted. However if you’re only focussed on youth, you miss all that beauty in yourself and others

CantankerousCamel · 30/09/2018 13:27

Oh and lovely chatting with you too x