To think some people on MN must have magic money trees?

[CoughLaughFart]

Am I the only thinking there are an awful lot of MNers who have no concept of others being less well off than they are? I’ve noticed a few times, but it seems to be getting really bad lately.

Two threads that spring to mind are the passport thread (where the OP’s partner is being pressured to get one so that he can volunteer for a work trip) and the holiday fall-out thread.

TBF most people on the passport thread seem to get that spending £75 on a new passport when you can’t afford to go abroad isn’t very sensible. However, there are quite a few posts along the lines of ‘Just get one, it’s not that expensive’ - even someone saying the OP’s partner should just ‘grow up’ and buy one and ‘that’s what savings are for’. Similarly, on the holiday thread a number of people are advising ‘Book the first flight out’ or ‘find different accommodation’, without a thought that holidays are generally expensive anyway and that effectively booking a second one might be beyond some people’s means.

These are specific current threads, but it seems to be a general attitude in some corners. ‘Get a cleaner’. ‘Get some nice wine and chill in the garden’ (to someone depressed because they’re skint and live in a rough area).

I’m grateful to be in a decent enough position financially, but I’d never simply assume anyone else was. Don’t people at least consider the potential for different circumstances before offering their ‘helpful’ advice?

....Also higher paid workers employing nannys etc are helping people who want to do those jobs. That’s just life. It’s the same principle saying if we all “bettered” ourselves who would do lower paid jobs as if we all did lower paid jobs and didn’t “better” ourselves who would provide jobs and opportunities and advance society in the first place?? We all need each other for the world to work. Nothing wrong with people sharing their views from different backgrounds- people learn from each other so maybe people might be inspired if someone suggests something they wouldn’t normally think possible.

Omg what if bunch of wingers. You should be grateful for those earning lots of money and paying a lot in income tax towards the benefit system.

Ah, @Sb74 and NOW we're getting to the nub of what you really think. Not that it hasn't been obvious throughout the thread. Odd, though, haven't you said several times on this thread that you've had enough and you're going, so why are you still here?

Pity you don't seem to 'have a mindset to improve' your spelling, BTW.

There's nothing wrong with suggesting a cleaner/holiday for a break/counselling etc. Unless the OP has already stated they're skint/have no money for any extras. Then it just becomes unhelpful and quite honestly stupid to suggest.

https://www.boredpanda.com/privilege-explanation-comic-strip-on-a-plate-toby-morris/?utmsource=google&utmmmedium=organic&utmcampaign=organic

Sb74, not only are you completely running out of arguments but you've contradicting yourself as well. Logic clearly isn't your strong point.

Firstly, nothing wrong with my spelling??! Maybe there are typos but my spelling is just fine thank you. Secondly I think I’ve made it quite clear in a very logical way what my views are. It’s not my fault you don’t get it. Really am going now. Not interested in this anymore.

It's hear, hear - not here, here. Just saying.

Wow, one thing. Big deal.

I think Sb74 is just being intentionally dense. I've also been through a lot. Abuse, drug addiction, continual rape for years which meant I became a single mother on a low income etc etc. I now have worked my way up to management and we have what we need, even managed a holiday this year! I've worked so so hard to get where I am and become the strong, independent person I am. However, I'm not going to pretend it could have gone the opposite way or pretend that luck has also played a big part. The coin could flip either way, at any time for any of us. Don't get me wrong, there are some people who won't even try to help themselves, but I believe such people are in the minority.

"Wow, one thing. Big deal"

Oh and it's actually whinge/ whingers and not "wingers".

Wow, one thing. Big deal.

No, there are quite a few others.

I was trying to be kind.

People make a lot of stuff up especially when it comes to bragging.

Someone actually thinks “whingers” is pronounced “wingers”. The woman clearly does not realise that the word is aspirated.

A winger is a footballer. Sometimes.

Here here is nonsensical.

You bray “Hear hear!” - if you are an MP In the House - because it implies something that has been said should be listened to.

I agree Aspen embellishments and bragging seem to be rife.

On the leg shaving thread......................just get them lasered.

Women who dont shave or wax regularly being treated like shit.

I dont shave my legs because they make me sore. A leg wax round here would be £50 a time.

i get my hair cut and colored every six weeks. I HATE having grey hair so thats where i choose to spend it. I love make up too.

Ive had to order two bras today. 32HH so i cant do cheap bras. So that was £60 for two bras.

Im lucky compared to some.

But there are still people willing to make women feel like shit on the leg shaving thread and saying how its neglectful not to do such a small thing for your husband and even insinuating that he may find someone else. And most of these posts are from women.

THEN i found a post from a man about leg shaving on a thread in Relationships on a "to ask the men of MN" thread about this saying its only a small thing to ask. He had read the thread in AIBU. I could not be in such a superficial relationship and going by what he posted his wife couldnt either it was reminder of why i wouldnt /wont date in my own age group

Women sometimes cant afford to do all the things that society requires of them image wise. I can afford to do a few of them but that may change in the future. Would that make me worth less as a person and a woman?

And the ones treating women with derision on here for not shaving or waxing would turn on a dime if a Universal Credit claimant posted on here that they had spent the last of their money on a leg wax and had to go to the food bank.

Then all of a sudden instead of a wax being a neccessity it would suddenly turn into a luxury.

It would be "why on earth are you spending money on a luxury like a leg wax when you need to buy food. "

There are some real hypocrites on here especially when it comes to sexism and money.

There is an important phsychological issue for people however in my view which is wheter you think you have any "agency", ability to change things or if you think there is no point in even trying and come up with 100 reasons why there is no way you could do XYZ to advance yourself. Sometimes a person is right to be in one camp or the other - the person without hands will never be a concert pianist etc, Sometimes people could be a bit less defeatist and can change things a bit. it is always worth having a think about whether there is something you might do to take charge and improve your financial position.

Fantastic, balanced, realistic post xenia. Thank you.

Well said Helena. If a man would leave a woman because she didn't shave her legs then he is shallow and needs to stfu unless he shaves his legs himself

Thanks, RG.
(And I by the way spend £7 every month to dye my hair at home and I don't shave anything. I couldn't care less what people think - we all pick our own priorities, those with a chance to choose.)

Hey Chas.................

inews.co.uk/news/uk/universal-credit-jobcentre-dwp-smartphone/

"A Universal Credit claimant has alleged that his local Jobcentre ordered him to purchase a smartphone for his job search because his basic model was not good enough. Arthur Chappell, who is unemployed, argued that his existing phone allowed him to answer calls and receive texts from employers and that he had a tablet with WiFi access to show the Jobcentre he was actively seeking work. However an adviser told him he needed to own a smartphone by the end of September in time for his next session. The 56-year-old called the request “offensive… on many levels

“With people starving and [dying of] suicide over the Universal Credit changes, forcing us to use credit-hungry phones is really beyond the pale,” he told i. Basic phone is ‘good enough’ On 6 September, Mr Chappell attended his monthly meeting at the Friargate Jobcentre but was instead informed that he would be signed on to the Universal Credit “full service,” following the system’s roll-out in Preston.

He was told he would need to bring his iPhone to the next briefing on 27 September. Mr Chappell, who does voluntary work, has a pay-as-you-go model he tops up with £5 every three months

“It’s just a basic, very simple phone that will only take calls and texts, but it’s good enough for somebody phoning me up to say we’ve got a job you might be interested in. I’ve got a computer at home as well. “I had my tablet with me right there [in the meeting] but [the adviser] decided that I am unlikely to carry that round with me 24/7.” “[The adviser] said ‘this isn’t good enough’ and I need to get an iPhone.” Mr Chappell was handed a paper briefing on ‘Universal Credit Full Service Group Sessions,’ which specified he would need “access to a computer, smartphone or tablet for future use”

Jobcentre offers to pay for phone In a statement given to i, a Department for Work and Pensions spokesman said: “There is no requirement for Universal Credit (UC) claimants to own a mobile phone, nor is a mobile phone required for a UC claim. Computers and free WiFi are available in all Jobcentres to enable claimants to maintain their accounts.” However Mr Chappell claims he was told in no uncertain terms that he needed a smartphone. When he raised that he could not afford one, the adviser told him they would pay £40 towards the device and specifically directed him to the Argos website. One model can be found for £34.99. “He said they pay for the phone but not for the top-ups,” said Mr Chappell, who fears a smartphone will need topping up more frequently. “It’s obviously [going to cost] more than what my current arrangement is because I think they actually want me to have internet access on it as well which will obviously strain the budget a lot more than the unit I’m using now.”

Mr Chappell said it felt as though the adviser wanted him to be able to search for a job round-the-clock with a smartphone. “The official reply [from the DWP] seems to be about what they expect claimants to bring to the Universal Credit registration meeting while my adviser’s demand is going beyond the registration to a device he expects me to have on me 24/7.” “It has been a standing rule that we should spend 35 hours a week job-seeking, though finding that many jobs in your skills range is extremely difficult. Having us contactable 24/7 by iPhone exceeds [this] boundary. “Sleep, shower, being in a cinema, eating lunch, all go out the window if that all important call comes through. It is extremely intrusive and invasive. This isn’t remotely about improving our job searching. It’s about policing every move we make.

‘Highly bogus’ Mr Chappell said he considered the adviser’s request “highly bogus”. He also admitted it had initially caused him concern. “I might get sanctioned and that will cause me big problems. It’s only now they’re making this transition [to full Universal Credit] that I feel threatened by it all.” He worried about how the public would perceive Universal Credit claimants with smartphones. “It is also likely to make more people look on the unemployed as scroungers. ‘Ooh, look at them walking round with the best [smartphones].’ That we didn’t pay for them and in some cases don’t want them is beside the point. We will get stigmatised.” Having a smartphone paid for seemed unnecessary when some claimants, including himself at times, could not afford the basics and used food banks, he added

Mr Chappell, who hopes to be working again by mid-November and is due to have his book on pub signs published in April, said he was managing at the moment but having to fork out for more credit for a new phone could mean he had to use food banks again. He said he would be sending a letter of complaint to the DWP and would hold off purchasing the phone until he heard back."

Read more at: inews.co.uk/news/uk/universal-credit-jobcentre-dwp-smartphone/

I don’t find defeatism helpful at all. Why approach every single situation as if there’s absolutely NOTHING that can be done to even improve it at all? So many ‘but, but, but’ without any attempt at problem solving or even acknowledging that there are ways to improve things but the person is choosing not to take them, if that’s the case.

I wonder sometimes what the poster acting like this gets out of it. Justification to themselves for not trying to better things? If someone is happy with their lot and doesn’t want to progress in their job, finances or living situation that’s their decision, they don’t need to throw up a hundred reasons/excuses for why they simply can’t do anything positive or productive.

(I’m coming from a position where I was earning less than NMW five years ago in jobs I despised, retrained, got into a career and now I’m earning triple my previous salary, met someone equally ambitious earning well and have a bright future finally, which seemed completely out of my reach before [especially as I’m living with multiple chronic pain issues/disabilities which cause a lot of fatigue, and have to take morphine daily])

Would I have felt as empowered if everyone around me kept handing me excuses as to why change was impossible? Absolutely not. I believe i’d still have done it one way or another as my previous life felt absolutely intolerable. But I approached it knowing it’d be hard bloody work and a couple of years of immense stress for an outcome that’s been worth it.

"It’s about policing every move we make." Totally agree!

I don't believe it's defeatism, it's realism!

I (mistakenly as it turned out) thought I was well enough to return to work last year. I applied for over 200 jobs well within my capabilities, for which I had the correct qualifications and experience. I received 2 replies and one of those was automated (there was an applicant test which somehow I failed - yet have been unable to get any feedback).

I recognise that this is in large part due to this being an area of high unemployment for which there are well over 100 applicants for every job advertised (certain job sites will display how many have applied via their site, and most jobs are advertised on several sites). But I also was assigned a sort of job coach specifically trained/qualified in helping people like me (who've not worked for a long time due to mh issues), AND I made use of the local careers support office.

The people advising me were upfront that in their MANY years of experience, they had frequently come across employers who instantly dismiss applicants who've been long term sick (even though this is illegal), to the point certain jobs I showed them they told me not to bother as that employer never even interviews, let alone employs, people with large gaps in their cv due to illness.

I'm hoping I can set up something where I'm working at home - which given my increasingly frequent and long bouts of housebound agoraphobia is realistic - and a kind mner even sent me a PM suggesting a potential company which I will discuss with the job coach type person.

Until employers and the govt actually enable the sick and disabled to work in a way that is compatible with their conditions, there will continue to be vast swathes of sick/disabled not working or only working part time when they could be doing so much more.

The tech/equipment in many cases is there but employers won't invest or even investigate if this is something that could work for them.

It seems incredibly short sighted to me both by business and the govt.

SURELY it's better to have people working and paying income tax rather than stagnating on benefits because they're not getting the support they need? SURELY employers would benefit from the skills, diverse experience and enthusiasm and actually I think huge loyalty they would get if they supported such potential employees? Plus if these employees are working at home that saves employers money in office space, heat, light, furniture... Even if that's offset against providing tech/eqpt for the employee to use?

But then we still have employees being sent on work trips when much of the time video conferencing etc would make those trips unnecessary, why are employers so slow to progress?