To think some people on MN must have magic money trees?

[CoughLaughFart]

Am I the only thinking there are an awful lot of MNers who have no concept of others being less well off than they are? I’ve noticed a few times, but it seems to be getting really bad lately.

Two threads that spring to mind are the passport thread (where the OP’s partner is being pressured to get one so that he can volunteer for a work trip) and the holiday fall-out thread.

TBF most people on the passport thread seem to get that spending £75 on a new passport when you can’t afford to go abroad isn’t very sensible. However, there are quite a few posts along the lines of ‘Just get one, it’s not that expensive’ - even someone saying the OP’s partner should just ‘grow up’ and buy one and ‘that’s what savings are for’. Similarly, on the holiday thread a number of people are advising ‘Book the first flight out’ or ‘find different accommodation’, without a thought that holidays are generally expensive anyway and that effectively booking a second one might be beyond some people’s means.

These are specific current threads, but it seems to be a general attitude in some corners. ‘Get a cleaner’. ‘Get some nice wine and chill in the garden’ (to someone depressed because they’re skint and live in a rough area).

I’m grateful to be in a decent enough position financially, but I’d never simply assume anyone else was. Don’t people at least consider the potential for different circumstances before offering their ‘helpful’ advice?

I do enjoy winging though.

This is me winging.

As OAPs dh and I would feel anxious if we were close to double figures in the bank at the end of the month. We have been fortunate. Despite growing up on a NE council estate with a disabled father I never knew real poverty but I feel nothing but sympathy for those who do.

Sb74, really? Did you actually process that thought before you wrote it? Every time you or Neshoma post you prove the OP's point.

“As a pp said, unless they are famous (like a footballer, or a model, or an actor/actress, or a rock star,) very few people will be on 6 figures.”

I think six figure salaries are probably quite normal in the City/financial sector. A friend of mine who’s a lawyer at one of the top firms in London was earning £85k three years after joining as a graduate. That was five years (and several further promotions) ago so she’s presumably on far more than that now. Another friend’s DH is a broker in the City and earns about £150k and a hefty bonus on top.

If you want to earn big bucks then that’s the route to go down. Sadly my earnings are less than a fifth of that.

Yanbu op.
Said people who are very well off have also told me to 'work more hours' or not to retrain in x y and z as I 'won't earn much .'
Which in principle is a good idea but I don't like being lectured to by the rich.

A forum with over a million users and no one has come up with any advice for those struggling. But a million voices shouting 'what if' 'but'...... I'm not even sure what you want. Probably more welfare.

Neshoma
You just dont get it do you?
I also know people who are very wealthy but you wouldnt know it unless you actually know them. They have old cars, old clothes and never talk about thier income its just not something that old school money people do. They muck in with village events, help maintain the flower beds (physically) with the others on the village council, donate xmas trees from thier land to schools etc. No snobbery at all. Real classy people in any walk of life do not boast about how freaking amazing they are. They appreciate not everyone is in the same boat as them

Its obviously a much too difficult concept for some people to grasp.

It seems that people with degrees, and 'important' jobs are the ones crowing about how well off they are and how much better than the rest (and how do you know what qualifications someone has anyway?) of us they are and if we all just managed to find a spare fortune to move house, go to uni and improve ourselves we would all be as wealthy as them.

The whole point of the thread was to point out some of the ridiculous suggestions made to people on the breadline. Each post you make proves the point and despite your supposed 'education' you seem clueless as to many realities of life for people in uk at the present time. Your head is firmly in the sand.

sb74
And the prize goes to..

If people had proper wages, proper contracts working people wouldnt need bloody bemefits.

Put your hand up and see where you are about ffs.

Mn is full of really helpful supportive suggestions for those struggling. This post was about those who are neither helpful nor supportive but,rather, judgmental (rare but good god we’ve seen it on this thread!) it insensitive or simply thoughtless.

The most annoying comments are get a better job yeah cause it's that easy or work more hours which if you are in a NMW job will not make you better of as they just take away other benifits that you may receive instead.
Wish people would do more research instead of talking rubbish.

@Willow2017

I also know people who are very wealthy but you wouldnt know it unless you actually know them. They have old cars, old clothes and never talk about thier income its just not something that old school money people do. They muck in with village events, help maintain the flower beds (physically) with the others on the village council, donate xmas trees from thier land to schools etc. No snobbery at all. Real classy people in any walk of life do not boast about how freaking amazing they are. They appreciate not everyone is in the same boat as them.

Excellent post @Willow2017 ^

It is the ones who talk about their 'wealth,' and their HUGE income and their exotic holidays, and their cleaners, and their gardeners and so on, who are the most irksome of people. And they are very far from upper class and posh. They are just wannabes, trying to be something they're not. Hyacinth Bucket very much springs to mind!

I agree also Willow2017, that there are some horribly judgemental and clueless posters on this thread. @sb74 and @neshoma are 2 who spring to mind. Utterly fucking clueless about what life is like for many people, (in addition to being bloody-minded, obnoxious, and judgemental!)

I am guessing we would all accept that capitalism depends on, and is defined by, the need for the low paid, less priveleged, those with limited social mobility etc without whom wealth can’t be generated for others. Given that it just doesn’t even make sense to ‘blame’ those who are poorer are less well educated etc. It’s got nothing to do with the individual. It’s got everything to do with rampant last- stage capitalism. Concepts of laziness, complacency etc attach everywhere in every strata of our society. Sick of those ‘with’ using those judgments to attack those ‘without’. I am one with lots (financial education opportunity and success) in case anyone starts to say I am bleating and whinging about those more ‘successful’ than me. A couple on here would do well to find their empathy and understanding to avoid being cold hard b***ds.

Heron
Well said. If it wasnt for people in low paid jobs the country would come to a standstill.

I got shouted down for wanting to retrain. Apparently I should have upped my hours in a stressful job that wasn't working for me.

I AM retraining now...much happier for it.

Astounds me when people don’t understand that wealth depends on inequality. This thread thankfully has not wholly been peopled by tossers.

No one said changing your life was easy. It’s not. You’re being equally judgemental of other people. There are obviously people who think their life is their “lot” and can’t do anything about it, feel powerless, and others that have a mindset to improve their life and driven. These people will never agree. I’m not horrible or judgemental. I just think there’s a always something that can be done. I’m positive and driven. Everyone is different. If trying to encourage other people makes me a bad person, so be it. Really had enough of this thread now. Very negative bunch.

I have find most people here really positive and thoughtful. Important subject.

So many times I've pointed out that these highly paid women's careers are only possible with the support of poorly paid women to clean their houses and look after their children. They sometimes have gardeners too. I bet all that support network is on minimum wage and I bet they'd be outraged if they had to pay more.

Positive in what way, Heron? That they support the OP?? Why can’t people feel they have control over changing their lives for the better?

If everyone "changed their lives for the better", who would do the minimum wage jobs that society depends on?

If you use a nursery childminder or nanny you are reliant on those who earn peanuts to keep you in work so if all those people bettered themselves who's going to look after the high earners kids

Sb74 positive in not being insensitive or excluding others by what they say that was what I meant by positive. I would include some posts who have had differing views. I agree with you about changing for the better and having drive and determination etc ( not exact quotes don’t have time to go back and read - about to go into work to do paperwork!). My views don’t disagree with that at all. I think I just add in a view that not everyone can or is able to and that that is not about them but about broader socio economic realities. Obviously there’s a range of politics on mn and we’ve seen it here but I think there has also been a very unfortunate range of sensitivity on this thread.

People move down as well as up - my son drives a van. It is obviously wise if people can get into the better paid group if possible but not always easy. there is a lot of helpful advice on MN.

Avoiding being defeatist is a good start.

But I never assume people have got lots of money or can afford to park the car rather than walk a mile from where it is free to park and that kind of thing. It is good for all of us to remember how to live on very little and it is how someone treats those from whom they have nothing to gain that tends to show what kind of person they are in life.

there are various things people can do on line - having a good old moan and getting sympathy on line is a lot cheaper than paying for some private therapy that is beyond most people's pockets. Other threads will give people practical advice - women who earn £1000 a day I remember etc, how you got there, what you do, what people can tell their teenage daughters to do to get into those kind of jobs - very helpful practical threads (for those who want more money - plenty of people don't). Then we have threads discussing the issues in general like this one. There are lots of good thread on MN.

There is an important phsychological issue for people however in my view which is wheter you think you have any "agency", ability to change things or if you think there is no point in even trying and come up with 100 reasons why there is no way you could do XYZ to advance yourself. Sometimes a person is right to be in one camp or the other - the person without hands will never be a concert pianist etc, Sometimes people could be a bit less defeatist and can change things a bit. it is always worth having a think about whether there is something you might do to take charge and improve your financial position.

Portia - I agree that being reliant on very low paid workers to keep you in better paid work is a very complicated issue. I have a friend with a highly paid highly stressful job and she has only just started to turn a profit aged 42. Her children have spent a lot of time with au pairs and housekeepers.

Here, here Xenia- .....Some people are quite happy to do lower paid work as they don’t want responsibility. So realistically we all know not everyone will try to”better” themselves but for those who are dissatisfied with their lives, then they should and can do something about it. I know I’ve done it and am still doing it do better my life again. But if someone suggested something out of my reach I wouldn’t have a meltdown and think what a bastard for being so insensitive. Life would be very boring if we were all the same.