To think some people on MN must have magic money trees?

[CoughLaughFart]

Am I the only thinking there are an awful lot of MNers who have no concept of others being less well off than they are? I’ve noticed a few times, but it seems to be getting really bad lately.

Two threads that spring to mind are the passport thread (where the OP’s partner is being pressured to get one so that he can volunteer for a work trip) and the holiday fall-out thread.

TBF most people on the passport thread seem to get that spending £75 on a new passport when you can’t afford to go abroad isn’t very sensible. However, there are quite a few posts along the lines of ‘Just get one, it’s not that expensive’ - even someone saying the OP’s partner should just ‘grow up’ and buy one and ‘that’s what savings are for’. Similarly, on the holiday thread a number of people are advising ‘Book the first flight out’ or ‘find different accommodation’, without a thought that holidays are generally expensive anyway and that effectively booking a second one might be beyond some people’s means.

These are specific current threads, but it seems to be a general attitude in some corners. ‘Get a cleaner’. ‘Get some nice wine and chill in the garden’ (to someone depressed because they’re skint and live in a rough area).

I’m grateful to be in a decent enough position financially, but I’d never simply assume anyone else was. Don’t people at least consider the potential for different circumstances before offering their ‘helpful’ advice?

Neshoma, you prove your lack of empathy and knowledge of real life on these threads time and time again. Listen to the people who know, take on what they say and think about it. You have a lot to learn, these women are worth listening to.

Oh wait isn't @Neshoma a period poverty denier? Never happened..

Yes, Rebel, and pure gold on the food poverty thread. All Hail the Almighty Lentil!

Graphista were is your evidence most libraries only allow a few hours access on shoddy machines?

There isn't even a library in a good many areas and villages - council cuts and all.

The last one I was in, last year, there was a half-hour limit for use and max daily use for one hour.

Our nearest library closed three years ago the nearest one is approx 12miles away and as all the little libraries have closed down the main one is over subscribed, you have to wait at least two hours to use one of their antiquated computers which is on the council network and is very slow and then you get 30mins tops.

Graphista were is your evidence most libraries only allow a few hours access on shoddy machines?
Maybe personal experience?

Our local library is the only one in 12 miles. Thats one town and 4 large villages. They have 2 computers. Every person seeking employment which is compulsory if claiming jsa has to provide evidence of this on your online record. Local jobcentre same situation as library has 2 computers also.
How many people do you suppose 4 pcs can sustain looking for jobs say 3 hours a day 5 days a week? Never mind people using them for studying, researching or other online stuff.
They have to limit use to give everyone a chance to use them.

Maybe if you had the first idea about how.many people have to live relying on services which have been cut to the bone you wouldnt have to ask?

I think it’s quite insulting to people to suggest just because they’re not born into a privileged life or fully able physically they are stuck and unable to do anything with their life. Lots of people achieve things in their life against the odds. Self pity doesn’t help anyone. Yes life is hard etc, but to me there is always a way to get out of a bad situation. I have turned my life around a number of times. It is hard but it’s possible. I’m talikng from experience. My family didn’t encourage me. My family were pretty poor growing up. I didn’t try hard at school. I had a dead end job. I’ve been married and divorced twice. One marriage was abusive. But I did something about it and worked my way up and studied part time and now I’m doing well for myself. No one helped me. I did it all myself. I’m now very happy with two kids, lovely partner, good job, nice life. I bloody well deserve it all and I would tell anyone do try to make their life better too.

I would say I have never seen a shiny new computer in a library but I would guess many LAs repurpose the redundant machines donated to schools to libraries. I have given several (outdated) computers to the public sector to use as they see fit; if they end up in a library, that's fine. They were fine to access the internet, do basic homework and a bit of word processing, but isn't that what most casual/infrequent users want? Why would you need a high spec machine for a job search? That's much more about speed and bandwidth, which is more about connection speeds than processing capability.

This thread is so reassuring- so many of you ‘get it’ and are supportive.
I had plans to do my degree when my kids went to school and to get a well paid job that would secure our future (my own childhood was chaotic and I lived in permanent poverty)

Then I had 2 children with disabilities and it transpired that my husband has the same condition.
I’m now a carer- on just over £60 a week- and I can’t work or retrain even if I had the energy as I now HE one child,after school failed her badly.

I worry so much about the future and how the hell we will manage and how I will retrain etc if the time is ever right.

I feel under valued and that I am living a half-life. Then I read threads on here about how hard people have worked to get their money or how I ‘should’ have X amount of savings and it makes me feel even worse.

OP-thank you for this thread.

As I said library computers are very very slow as they're on a council network plus we're only allowed 30 minutes so not much time for signing into the job centre site

Graphista were is your evidence most libraries only allow a few hours access on shoddy machines?

I've never been in a library which allowed more than half an hours access! In any case the local library is only open a few days a week and has one computer and always a queue of people waiting.

Just out of interest, are job sites particularly slow? Most of that slowness is the speed of the BB connection.

Thank you

The physical thing will never improve but I do physio exercises and yoga to hopefully slow the worsening, and I have to be careful how I move/what I do the rest of the time.

The mh stuff I'm working on (but been saying that for 12 bloody years!) current cpn OK sort, got a new support worker I'm just getting to know and hopefully getting meds sorted.

"I suspect we all agree on one thing though - that both hard work and luck play a big part - both of them in most cases." Definitely - but too many posters assume it's JUST hard work and that they've earned all they have and that those that don't have deserve to be a don't have!

"they cover most of it" her we go again - covering most of it is no good if that person is from a background/family that CANNOT make up the shortfall.

"and if you have a holiday job that can make up the rest." Again - circumstances - and courses - differ. When I was doing my nursing degree another job just wasn't feasible, we didn't get the same holidays as other students, we certainly didn't get the long summer break! And what breaks we did get were taken up with study or catching up on sleep! I suspect this is also true for other healthcare students.

"Calm down Graph, I'm making an alternative view." Based on ill informed assumptions!

"I disapprove of WTC credits because I think it enables cheapskate employers, like supermarkets, to subsidize the cost of P/T jobs at public expense." While I agree, I'd be VERY interested to know if you ALSO disagree with childcare being part covered by tax credits? Oh yes - you don't really "do" employing mothers do you?

"Graphista were is your evidence mostlibraries only allow a few hours access on shoddy machines?" Personal experience in 4 separate counties across the uk, friends and family elsewhere in the uk telling me their libraries operate similarly. Old software, systems regulars crashing or freezing (and you DON'T get extra time as there's other people waiting)

When was the last time you were reliant on library computers?

My nearest library luckily for me is only 1.5 miles away, however as I'm housebound due to agoraphobia currently it may as well be 100! Also that library is the nearest library for others who live up to 15 miles away. And this is also in an area with one of the highest unemployment levels in the uk.

Willow - I too have had the "overqualified" nonsense when applying for jobs, to the point I've considered leaving my degrees out of my cv, but then that leaves huge gaps in it AND doesn't make sense wrt the jobs I've had which would have required certain qualifications experience - can't bloody win!

"No one helped me" really? Not even the state? You've never received benefits when times were tough?

Xing - yea cos why would people on threat of sanctions need a computer that works properly? Where the keys don't jam, or the screen fritz, or the mouse glitch? Resulting in a job search or UC claim being cocked up!

When did you last job seek? Most applications are online now, via bespoke application software (that older library systems can't cope with) that can include testing of typing speed, or ability to set up a spreadsheet, or produce a graph or other image.

Xing
Most job applications require you to do online questionnaires or even face to face interviews. Most library computers dont have webcams nor the speed that you need to do pages of stupid questions quickly where there is no right answer or no hope of getting the right answer unless you know the company policy on things. Spending 20 minutes on each questionnaire once you actually get onto that part can mean taking upto 30 minutes per job application. Not much use if you are restricted to 30 minutes on a computer.

I think many people struggle to empathise with things that are too far outside their own experience.

I grew up in a v wealthy family, had a v decent income in my early twenties but then splitting up with my ex and single parenthood with a big mortgage meant money was v tight for a few years. Every meal was carefully planned and something breaking would be a huge stress.

Life is comfortable again after pay rises and a new DP. We just bought a bigger (large) house and DP started acting like we were on the poverty line because our savings were depleted, when in reality we are still very comfortably off. I gave him a bit of a talking to! He just has never been in a position of having less than 6 months salary in savings before and he felt so exposed. Yet to me there were times only a few years ago when I was cooking very creatively to get me and the kids through to pay day.

Im a bum living on around 24k.

£75 is two weeks food shopping for us. If i take my kids away I have a contingency fund but that sure as hell wouldnt allow drastic changes of plans.

We get by but we certainly dont have spare money that people often think of as being insignificant

Wow, so many examples, it's almost unbelievable!

Those who want to try will do, meanwhile there will be plenty who don;t based on the negative attitudes of some posters on here. How about "some maybe able to access a computer at their library or Job Centre"?

I/We have no issue with childcare being covered by tax credits; that's not the point.

We have only recently employed a woman with children (who is likely to become our financial director) because the vacancy only recently became vacant. Her job was previously held by a previous colleague who was kept on through personal loyalty despite his wife's medical issues that needed him to take a massive amount of time off (four to six weeks at a time) for several years. (He was paid in full every month regardless, without loss of holiday entitlement, and we worked around his and their need for time off).

We made it work, until we worked out (together) a solution that allowed him to maintain a sensible income.

If you've researched my previous posts, you will also know that we are a tiny company. Please understand I don't think that micro-businesses cannot be subject to exactly the same rules as big ones, because a company with under 10 people can't cover everything at the same time as doing the actual work, including but not limited to the pension rules, compliance/9001, and health and safety. We do, because I do it, at somewhere below NMW. Our business is no larger than your local garage/MOT/car service operation, and apart from being more specialist, works much the same. In most businesses, administrators don't earn for your company; you just have to pay them. We don't carry passengers; we can't afford any.

For the record, if business is quiet, we don't ask staff to stand around idly; we send them home, and pay them anyway.

Neshoma
Oh do rtft.
If you have half an hour on a library computer a couple of times a week you arent going to get far job searching are you?
And these days nearly all job applications are online. You cant just pop into your local shop and drop of your cv. Its all done centrally. Believe me i have tried.

Having the will to do something is not much good IF YOU DONT HAVE THE MONEY TO DO IT.

Which part of that does your oh so educated brain not understand?

And I employ no one as the state has chosen to make regulation on small employers so awful it becomes easier not to bother. Big State has shot itself in the foot on that and really needs to think the massive burdens it places on small employers and I address that comment both to Tory and Labour parties - both as bad as each other on this issue.

As for the difficulties of not having much money I don't think most of us need much convincing. It can be hard. It certainly helps to put off having children as long as you can whilst you progfress in a career, never go part time and try to put in place things that will make life chances a bit easier. You can also be defeatist in life which can therefore give more chances to those competing against you who aren't defeatist but I don't think it really helps you to think like that.

Everyone is in different positions, some of us have more now but when our kids were tiny were really skint (cutting coupons and no car), some (like us) in theory have money but everything pretty much is spoken for because of university costs and I'm dreading the mot on Monday in case it fails.

Getting realistic, priorities do have a lot to do with it - I have friends who are always broke but both smoke 10+ cigarettes a day, I know others whose livers take a hammering most nights a week. People who drive newish cars on contract, have new phones, games systems in each child's room not to mention quantity of kids.

A bottle of wine can be bought for £4, it's probably a realistic suggestion for the vast majority. The passport is a strange one as I've always had one for ID purposes, never let it lapse - same goes for drivers licence even when we didn't have a car.
Cleaner - well we pay £25 a fortnight which I consider cheaper than divorce! Remember it gives a lady a job, she's self employed and earns £12.50 an hour from me. If I couldn't afford it, of course I would let her go, I've cancelled her on occasion for financial reasons but I would forgo a takeaway or trip to the pub to pay for my cleaner.

I know I'm fortunate, but I know many have a lot more, many less - if I suggest something it's because it works for my family, unless someone indicates they are very poor, suggestions are in good faith

I'm old and resigned to being unemployable. If you bothered to/could read competently, you would understand that I DONATED computers, for free, for public use. That doesn't mean I have any other responsibility for their maintenance. I just hoped they would be useful.

Really skint, cutting coupons and no car

Have you watched 'how to shop well for less' programme on the BBC. They've had people on spending £500 plus in one go on clothes and £200 on a single pair of shoes for example.

I agree it's crazy. We are supposed to be rich, in the sense they took away my child benefit despite me not even reaching the income tax threshold because my dh earns over £60k (due to our unequal income we pay a higher marginal rate of tax as a family on top of no child benefit, my bugbear as my dd has asd), but anyway I have a handbag from Asda, clothes from Sainsbury's or M&S (ok I've moved on from primark), and my boots are from the Sue Ryder shop secondhand, my holiday this summer was camping, and I don't mean glamping! Oh and my makeup probably is a health hazard it's so old.

I do like watching it though, plenty of tips on swops.

Now I use the money from being thrifty/mean to have a cleaner fortnightly, my choice - I know it's a luxury many can't afford but I have no designer clothes or shoes, I do have a clean bathroom!

Most of my recent posts were directed to @Graphista.