To think some people on MN must have magic money trees?

[CoughLaughFart]

Am I the only thinking there are an awful lot of MNers who have no concept of others being less well off than they are? I’ve noticed a few times, but it seems to be getting really bad lately.

Two threads that spring to mind are the passport thread (where the OP’s partner is being pressured to get one so that he can volunteer for a work trip) and the holiday fall-out thread.

TBF most people on the passport thread seem to get that spending £75 on a new passport when you can’t afford to go abroad isn’t very sensible. However, there are quite a few posts along the lines of ‘Just get one, it’s not that expensive’ - even someone saying the OP’s partner should just ‘grow up’ and buy one and ‘that’s what savings are for’. Similarly, on the holiday thread a number of people are advising ‘Book the first flight out’ or ‘find different accommodation’, without a thought that holidays are generally expensive anyway and that effectively booking a second one might be beyond some people’s means.

These are specific current threads, but it seems to be a general attitude in some corners. ‘Get a cleaner’. ‘Get some nice wine and chill in the garden’ (to someone depressed because they’re skint and live in a rough area).

I’m grateful to be in a decent enough position financially, but I’d never simply assume anyone else was. Don’t people at least consider the potential for different circumstances before offering their ‘helpful’ advice?

But I don’t think people should be attacked for innocently suggesting things like “get a cleaner”etc just because that’s not the norm for the OP. It is the norm for some people.

Sack the cleaner and spend the money on a brain.

And actually, I said life’s not fair in a comment and I’m now comfortably off. However I’ve been through very tough times in my life in many ways but I am a survivor and now I have a well paid job and good life but it wasn’t easy. So yes I am in a position to comment on life not being fair but if people want their life to change only they can do it. No amount of attacking better off people will change that.

Who has ‘attacked’ you? Get a grip.

My brain’s just fine thank you. Is That the best you can do?? Ha ha. I do a lot of charity work and am very sympathetic to those less off but the simple thing is don’t put questions on here if you not prepared for the answers.

I think it’s you op that needs to get a grip. This is a free country and a social forum. People can say what they like within reason. It’s very narrow minded if people except replies totally aligned to their situation. People will respond as to what they would do. I can’t be bothered with anymore if this now. Good luck with the rest of it all!!

MN is a strange place. It's obsessed with both class markers and not showing wealth. Weddings are a major class marker but on MN you get lynched if you didn't get married in an Aldi car park, serving hay and bracken water.

I think it’s you op that needs to get a grip. This is a free country and a social forum. People can say what they like within reason.

Of course they can - whether they should is another matter. But hey, you do charity work, so who cares if you make people feel like shit, right?

@Neshoma I chose uni. I was a high achieving child despite emotional and physical abuse abuse at home,despite sexual assault as a child. I chose uni,I chose moving away. I didn't choose getting raped or getting pregnant from it. I chose an abortion. I didn't choose the utter despair,depression,self harm and suicidal thoughts that came with both. I didn't chose to quit uni in a flame of shame I just couldn't do it. Choosing to live every day took too much effort.

Now i have a job that indeed pays peanuts,one kid and a partner. I'm ok tough. I never thought I would be and for the moment this is enough.

This thread has actually made me feel better. I always felt crap that I couldn't live the MN lifestyle. I can't afford cleaners or holidays, I haven't even got a window cleaner! But we get by just fine, at the end of the month our bank accounts are empty but we're happy!

Oh and despite making such poor choices and obviously failing at life my friendship groups range from millionaires to single,unemployed mums. There is no jealousy just appreciation and respect across the board.

Op, I’ve never been rude or nasty on here and I wouldn’t be. My point is that people might suggest something on here with no intention of hurting someone’s feelings or making them feel bad, it’s just the norm to them. In real life it’s easier to be sensitive when talking to someone but you don’t know who you are talking to on here. And I don’t think ignorance makes a person bad. It’s very hard to appreciate someones life problems and position if you’ve not experienced them yourself. Do any of us understand the true extent of poverty in the third world? I very much doubt it. But if we made suggestions that seemed perfectly ok to us but not them would that make us bad people?? Of course not. Just ignorant but with good intentions. Unless someone on here is obviously being nasty in their reply I don’t think the OP of a post should let it get to them. It’s meant with good intent.

Good thread. MN brings people together. I don't have a cleaner or a window cleaner (sometimes every year or to I get someone to do the windows).

I suspect we all know that life is a mixture of luck and hard work and you can generally improve your chances by making a few wise choices. Eg picking high paid work, getting good exam results, buying a house before you have a child, tends to be a fairly good plan.

However no one should ever assume everyone has certain things. In fact if you can manage without always wanting more more more materialistic stuff you tend to be happier in life.

Chas - are you fucking kidding?! Even this Tory govt deems the Internet, even smart phones as essential - you can't manage a UC claim properly without them!! EVERYTHING is online now! Benefits claims, joining the electoral roll, billing, banking, even children's homework! You're clueless!

I'm on benefits - don't smoke, drink, have manicures, fake tan, fancy telly or even a goat!

Besides which why do you think being poor is a crime for which people should be punished?! Jesus are you Mrs J R-M??

"no I think they should focus on getting into work."

A large number of people receiving benefits ARE WORKING FULL TIME!

B do you apply that to people like me? Disabled and mentally ill and currently not well enough to work? Or others sick/disabled unlikely to ever be well enough to work? Presumably you're against assistance pets?

C do you apply that to people like pinacoladaa who are carers for disabled relatives?

"that’s why we have libraries." Oh for fucks sake!!

A cuts are causing wife spea closure of libraries

B most libraries have limited numbers of computers and so have to restrict each persons access to 1-2 hours per day. If you're on UC as a jobseeker you're expected to prove you are job seeking - mainly online! - for up to 35 hours a week! How is someone supposed to do that if they only have max 10 hours access a week to an unreliable library computer? And if ALL job seekers were denied home internet there'd be a lot more trying to use the computers too! Give me bloody strength!!!

Those in food poverty are likely not to have home internet - it's quite possibly one of the REASONS they're in food poverty because it makes it a damn site harder to organise benefits!!

"Just because someone chose an education, moved away and found a good job over marrying Mike and having 4 kids by 24. It available to everyone - free education, free contraception, free healthcare. No one has said well done to anyone for leaving home, working hard, studying for 10 years and getting that big promotion.Sounds like jealousy." Thus far neshoma I have bitten my tongue. But actually from other threads I feel confident in saying you are one of the worst offenders of the type of poster/posts we're talking about and you just proved it! There are MANY posts on this thread describing EXACTLY why certain SEEMINGLY free education etc actually ISN'T! Nobody has said "well done" for having access to opportunities that many don't FOR DAMN GOOD REASON - because it's NOT just earned, there's a strong element of luck!

Being LUCKY enough to be born healthy.

Being LUCKY enough to be born academically able.

Being LUCKY enough to be born into a family that is supportive, encouraging and not poor.

Being LUCKY enough to access and go to a good school with able, engaging and encouraging teachers.

Being LUCKY enough to have your basic needs met - food, shelter, clothing - that you can make the best use of that education.

Being LUCKY enough that you're born into a family that is able to appreciate an education.

Being LUCKY enough to be born into a family that can support you in accessing education past age 16.

Being LUCKY enough to be born into a family that teaches you about sex and contraception, or where your school is good enough to do a good job on this - not all do.

Being LUCKY enough to either already live in an area that has decent jobs available OR to afford to move to another area that does.

Being LUCKY enough to STAY healthy (helped by decent housing, diet and access to healthcare - which due to the cuts is NOT true everywhere) to make the most of a tertiary education and employment opportunities.

Being LUCKY enough to not become a victim of DV.

Being LUCKY enough that even if you become pregnant by contraceptive failure to be ask to access an abortion within an appropriate timescale - again cuts are making this harder!

Being LUCKY enough to get a job with a family friendly, flexible employer who doesn't stifle your career progress completely when you do want to have a family (I happen to know one mner posting on this thread is the very OPPOSITE type of employer).

It's NOT just down to the effort on the individuals part.

And I'm going to repost this link too:

digitalsynopsis.com/inspiration/privileged-kids-on-a-plate-pencilsword-toby-morris/

Thankfully there's at least one well off poster on the thread willing to fully recognise just how lucky they are!

"I'm pretty sure anyone can get a loan at the moment - I guess there is the fear of paying it back."

A not true that everyone can get a loan

B loan doesn't cover all expenses.

In theory anyone can have lunch at the ritz - reality not all can afford it!

"People from deprived backgrounds can and do go to uni" it's not just lack of aspiration.

"Mental health problems are a great leveller." Absolutely!!

Flaming autocorrect!

Widespread closure of libraries.

Just because someone chose an education, moved away and found a good job over marrying Mike and having 4 kids by 24. It available to everyone - free education, free contraception, free healthcare. No one has said well done to anyone for leaving home, working hard, studying for 10 years and getting that big promotion.Sounds like jealousy.

Again totally missing the point of the thread.
Have you never heard of illness, disability, dv, partners leaving you with sfa, being made redundant?

I left home and trained in a profesdion and spent 10 years in it then i.was made redundant. I worked pm and w/es to avoid childcare with my then partner. Then started my own business which i did for 7yrs. During this time my partmet left so i.had 2 kids and a mortgage to provide for on my own. Business dried up and
I am now in a mnw job but it brings in money so i am stuck with it for now. I had to sell.the house and move to rented accommodation. Its cost me a fortune as the house was basicslly a shell.

I didnt ask to be counting penmies and going without meals so.i could feed my kids thank you. I didnt ask to.be put out the home i built 30 years ago. I didnt ask to have medical problems suddenly appear.

So get off your high horse and engage your brain a bit before you slag everyone who isnt earning pots of money.

The whole point of the thread is when.people ask for advice as they are just scraping by each week.telling them.to get a 'good job', retrain (my nearest college is 40 miles away how am i supppsed to get there?) or "get a cleaner in to help you out" or "go on a mini break " its bloody ignorant when.op jas said she doesnt have a penny spare each week.

Nobody begrudges people earning good money but just remembber nobody asks to be dealt a shit hand in life so they end up struggling for a period in time.
Sb74
In many cases tje op is asking for support and helpfull advice not ways in which to spend money they.dont actually have! There is absolutely no.point in making suggestions that you can afford if its patently obvious the op cant. Thats what the op of this thread means.

Bravo, Graphista. Bloody well said, that was sorely needed.

And you too, Willow. The complacency on this thread is unreal. Talk about out of touch with the real world.

Well Said Graphista Bravo
and I'm sorry that you're poorly hopefully things will improve for you very soon

Graphista - couldn’t agree more.

I always think it when I see the people saying “ugh just learn to drive already” (paraphrasing) without taking into account that a single solitary driving lesson can cost £25-30 an hour. Not everyone has that kind of cash to chuck around.

I suspect we all agree on one thing though - that both hard work and luck play a big part - both of them in most cases.

I am not so sure I agree on the university loans. Whilst they may not for the middle class cover all their rent (but they cover all the fees), they cover most of it and if you have a holiday job that can make up the rest. It is easier now than when only 15% of people could go to university and of those few there was a bigger gulf in money if you didn't have parent who could make the minimum grant up to the full grant and were not eligible for the full grant.

I really really hope the political parties are reading this thread. The messages are a clearer indication of what is important in society and needs addressing than all the conference speeches I've heard in 50 years of being interested.

There are (awkwardly) political differences about the level of carrot and stick that should be applied to the distinction between willing and able in disadvantaged areas and unwilling to move or less able. I lean politically to the centre right, with a view that if you are mentally and physically capable, then you should work to support your family. I disapprove of WTC credits because I think it enables cheapskate employers, like supermarkets, to subsidize the cost of P/T jobs at public expense.

Calm down Graph, I'm making an alternative view.

Have you never heard of illness, disability, dv, partners leaving you with sfa, being made redundant?

Yes and some of those go on to higher education or university, gain better employment etc

Graphista were is your evidence most libraries only allow a few hours access on shoddy machines?

Glass half empty views on here.

Well said graph and willow and others. Neshoma I have to say you do sound to be in an angry selfish place at the moment without much sensitivity or care for others. You may not care I guess ?

Yes and some of those go on to higher education or university, gain better employment etc

You cant just magic up the money to go to college if yoyr nearest one is 40-50 miles away. If you are working nmw and can't afford the petrol to go to college in evenings never mind pay childcare.
If you cant afford to move somewhere else because finding a months rent plus deposit plus removal fees is impossible, if moving kids school means disrupting thier education and £300 in new school uniforms what the actusl freak are yiu supposed to do?

I am so glad everything is in black and white in your world. The resy of us dont have that luxury to chose were we live, what jobs we can do to fit in with kids and transport, go to college/uni when we are watching every penny we have.

(Btw i have several qualifications that only seemed to hinder me when applying for every job i could last year as employers seemed to think i would be 'bored' or was over qualified, not much help when you just wanted a job, any job)