Is it reasonable for DP to say he won’t propose until...

[WhiteKnuckleRide]

I have learned to drive?

Bit of background: We have been together four years, live together, no children together but I have DS(6) from previous relationship. DP is great with DS. We both work full time, both earn the same. I do most of the household duties. I don’t drive.

We work different shifts so DP gives me a lift to do the school run and takes me to work in the morning. In the afternoon I walk or get a taxi home.

FWIW even if I could drive, we wouldn’t bother getting a second car and would share, so the current arrangement would still stand. I have said many times I don’t mind walking or taxiing in the morning but he doesn’t start work until the afternoon so he says he may as well take us. He obviously drives every time we go anywhere as a family too - cinema, food shopping, weekends away etc.

I have had lessons before but never got as far as taking my test. I’m a very nervous driver and last time I stopped because my vision was so bad. I have since gotten glasses so that wouldn’t be a problem now, however we are saving a deposit to buy a house and I would struggle to pay for lessons while I am trying to put everything I can into savings, without dipping into those. I would like to start driving again after we have bought a house.

Tonight DS asked if me and DP were going to get engaged one day. I just smiled and said “hopefully”. DP said that won’t be happening until mummy learns to drive. I just laughed and said “don’t be a knob” to which he replied “I’m being serious”.

AIBU to think that his decision to ask me to marry him should be based on his feelings towards me and our future as a couple rather than a condition I have to fulfil? Or is he being completely reasonable in his wish for me to have this practical skill before he will marry me? I am asking because I’m genuinely unsure whether to feel angry at what he said and would love to hear different opinions.

He is bu to insist you learn to drive but I would say go and do it for yourself OP. I passed my test 2 years ago and I'm so glad. It gives me so much more freedom and I don't need to rely on do to take me anywhere that requires a car. Sounds daft but it made me feel so much more independent.

Completely out of order.
Neither of us drive. Dh has a medical condition and therefore chooses not to, to be safe. I was offered lessons for my 17th. I chose to decline, and have not bothered since. I prefer a drink to being able to drive.

We both work full time, both earn the same. I do most of the household duties.

Why would you marry someone whose earns tbe same as you, but 'lets' you do most of the household duties?

How about I'm not marrying you dp until you do 50% of the housework

^ this

It may be annoying him more than you realise. Just pass your test OP, for your own sake, then decide whether or not he was BU.

Well, driving is a life skill. Not so important if you live in London but elsewhere in the country, it impacts on so many things. It isn’t just stuff like ferrying the kids around or being the designated driver on a night out.

I work full time as does DH. I have one parent who has been in the hospital for weeks and another one who I had to take to A and E this week. Up and down the motor way for visiting my mum each evening after work and all over the place with my dad at silly o’clock. Both of those things would have been pretty much impossible if I wasn’t a driver as DH works all different hours and had to stay here at home with the kids anyway.

As your parents get older and unable to drive themselves around it’s really important that YOU are then able to drive them to places they need to go. They did it for you for years, I’m sure. You can’t expect an 85 year old to travel all over the place on public transport (even if it IS available 24 hours) and taxis don’t suit every situation.

Imagine having to say, support your parent and accompany them to the funeral parlour to plan their spouse’s funeral? Woukd you really want them standing around waiting for a taxi? Sobbing into their hanky in the back of a cab? What about taking them to an outpatient appointment where they are terrified rhey’ll Be told they’ve got terminal cancer? Or take take their beloved pet to the vets to be put to sleep?

There are some situations where to be driven around by their son or daughter makes such a difference to an elderly person’s life.

If you have the option to learn and can afford it, and live outside of London then I do think driving is a necessary skill to learn, like any other. I’m not sure I woukd have married a man who couldn’t drive. I just find it a bit “helpless” I suppose, as someone else said.

I would have felt exactly the same about a man who couldn’t cook and didn’t want to learn. It wouldn’t be happening!

Maybe being your taxi driver for a future doesn't appeal to him? My partner doesn't drive and I wouldn't hold it as an ultimatum but equally I don't drive him anywhere regularly. He gets about by public transport happily enough. Maybe it's time to learn to drive - if not for him, for yourself. As the sole driver, he never gets a 'day off' from that duty. It would be fair if you made the effort to share the load. Maybe that's how he feels? Who knows.

“I prefer a drink to being able to drive.”

Well, don’t we all?! But sometimes venues are not anywhere with accessible public transport and you have to just suck up having to go without a drink. It’s most annoying if you always seem to be the mug driving everyone else around while they get pissed.

He will most likely move the goalposts again when you do learn to drive - my ex DP was like that. “Oh I’ll marry you when you do that” or “I was just about to propose but then...”

And what if you legally can’t drive for medical reasons or are anxious to the point of being sick or do not pass the test numerous times? Happy to live with you indefinitely but not propose? Weird.

This isn't about driving (though it's brought out the usual mundane dumbfucks who are too precious/lazy/incompetent to cope without car ownership, when there are very few places a city dweller can't manage to get to without needing a car. I go all over the country for events and work and I have never owned a car, nor driven one since I passed my test about 30 years ago).
This is a man determined to keep OP on the back foot and anxious to please him - so that she never gets round to wondering if he's actually worth the bother in the first place. He isn't, OP. You could do better than a lazy, selfish sod who thinks you're somewhere between a servant and a household pet. Think about getting rid before he grinds you down even further.

@MrsStrowman

I've got to admit honestly not being able to drive would have been quite a negative for me in a partner when I was dating. It just means in a family especially, all of the running around is left to one person, and whilst you say oh i could get the bus etc, it would have an impact on logistics, timings and flexibility, you can't run DS to clubs, activities, playdates, parties etc. Need to get a new hoover (any sizeable item) DP has to pick it up, or you have to order online and wait for delivery, going on a family day out or holiday, DP is always the one to do all of the driving, there and back and any in between, night out he's always the designated driver, it's not much of a partnership.

DH is dropping me at the airport at five tomorrow morning so I can go to work without leaving my car at the airport, but next weekend I'll pick him up from the station after he's been out for his friend's birthday, I'm taking the cat too the vet next week, he drove to the hospital last time I needed to go etc. It seems more mutual if you can both help the other and share some of the load.

All of this.

Some people are outraged by the fact that a woman would not fancy a man who couldn't drive. I'm afraid I am one of them, and yes, I would be unlikely to be in a long term relationship with a man who can't drive/couldn't be arsed/didn't want to learn.

I have known several men in the past who would never marry a woman who couldn't cook, and also several men who said they would never want a woman over a size 10, including one man who said if he married a size 10 woman, she has to stay that way, as he finds fat women repugnant. I have also known a few men say they would never want a long term relationship/marriage with a woman who didn't have a job, as he would be the sole provider. (When kids came along, and they decided between them that she should be a SAHM for several years, he would support her, but he would not be with a woman who had no job, when they have no kids.)

So I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting a partner who can drive. And that goes for men too; they are equally entitled to say they wouldn't want a woman who can't drive. As the poster I quoted said, when you were well into the relationship; marriage, kids, running errands, shopping, going on trips together etc, etc, etc, it's very unfair for one person in the marriage/relationship, to be the designated driver all the time.

So I don't think the OP's partner is being unreasonable to want her to drive, but he is a massive tit to let her do all the housework. And a HUGER tit, saying he won't propose until she learns to drive. She really does need to say 'you step up and do 50% of the housework, and I will learn to drive!'

Have to say, I know THREE different couples where one partner cannot drive (two of the couples it's the woman, and one it's the man,) and in each one of the couples, the driver has had it up to their eyeballs with always being the one doing the running around, and it's a massive bugbear. And a huge strain on their relationship. One guy is a pal of my DH, and he has to take his wife to work, and fetch her back, 4 times a week. As well as getting himself to work and back on differing shifts every week, and all his shifts, and hobbies, and social activities have to revolve around hers, so he always there to pick her up and drop her off. It's a nightmare for him.

The other 2 couples suffer similar issues.

As Mrs Strowman said it's not much of partnership when one person is doing ALL the running around in the car, whilst the other one sits in the passenger seat relaxing, and sits at home while their partner does every errand, always drives on trips and holidays, and fetches and carries everything, and runs the kids around. Not fair.

Not everybody lives in the middle of London, where transport is in abundance. And you don't have to live in a 'six fingered backwater town' to need a car! as a pp said on page 3! Most people need a car. Public transport is so SHIT and so expensive, that having a car is often more convenient, often the only option, and is often cheaper than the whole fucking family using public transport!

I agree with a pp that driving is an invaluable skill, and gives you so much freedom, and anyone who chooses to not learn is both missing out on a great life skill, and is also very selfish if they are in a relationship. And as @curlyhairedassassin said, I don't know HOW anyone can go long term - their whole life - not driving. There are so many times we need our car, the list is endless, (including for our very busy careers!) Curly up there ^ went through many more of them, as did @MrsStrowman on page 1

I'm afraid also, that I agree with @heretohelpgb (page 2,) that people who can't be arsed to drive/don't drive/won't drive, are a little immature, and slightly pathetic, and rather selfish too... And these are not traits in a man that I find attractive! So it would be a NO from me... Maybe the OP's partner feels the same...........

He doesn't want to marry you because you've procreated with another man.

Subconsciously, he's thinking "She's split with the biological father of her kid, she'll probably do the same to me at some point'.

He's covering his arse and I don't blame him.

The driving licence is just an excuse.

It does sound as if he is less happy about doing all the driving than you had assumed and made a rather cackhanded attempt at humour about it with very dodgy timing - but it may be a way of him saying that he isn’t happy at the dependency it involves and doesn’t want a marriage that has that aspect.

I wouldn't even date a person who couldn't drive, let alone marry one (medical reasons for not driving aside of course). But it wouldn't be an iusse where I live as everyone over the age of about 20 who is medically fit to drive, does so.

The OP's partner probably has the same thoughts about people who refuse to drive, as many others do; that they are immature, and small minded, and self-serving.

Some of them think that just because THEY don't need to drive, and THEY live on a bus route, and THEY have no responsibilities, and THEIR job is a 15 minute bus ride away from their front door, and THEY don't need a car; that no-one else needs one either, and anyone who DOES drive (and has a car) is a stupid, mindless fool.

Some of the most obnoxious, sanctimonious, arrogant, selfish people I know, are those who don't drive/refuse to drive. Not the ones who CANNOT drive, but the ones who can, but refuse to. Unsurprisingly, I do not have any of these oiks in my friendship group.

I was pregnant with our 3rd when my husband insisted I learn to drive. He said he couldn't handle any additional driving (which was fair). I'd been in a serious accident as a kid and was extremely nervous. I passed my test when a week before my due date. Fourteen years later, I don't know how I ever managed without it. He may well have your best interests at heart.

He can stipulate what he likes, you can decide whether his terms are worth it. It's really that simple.

Just learn to drive. It is beyond annoying to have friends who don’t drive.
I couldn’t stand it in a partner

I'd learn to drive, and then ditch him. He sounds like a right sponger.

AIBU to think that his decision to ask me to marry him should be based on his feelings towards me and our future as a couple rather than a condition I have to fulfil?*

No, you are not being unreasonable at all.
Perhaps you should refuse to get engaged until he loves and accepts you as you are.
I think you need to have a conversation with him and point out how controlling that comes across.

i think this is weirdly controlling. Is he like that in other ways? Marriage should be about loving someone to the point where you can't bear to be apart. Not him doing you a favor with conditions attached.

Well, there's another thread where tons of women say they wouldn't marry a man who didn't drive.

I can see his point, OP. Just have the lessons.

Ignoring all the “ He leaves cups of tea next to the bed” / he’s abusive Ltb stuff.

At its crux it’s not unreasonable to want a life partner who has managed to learn to drive.
Having to be the adult and carry the “driving load” is a burden.

And as for the “should his decision be based on our future as a couple” You can equally argue it demonstrates a selfishness on your part that you won’t try and learn which (rightly?) gives him pause for thought

Why not sit down with him and say. Thought about it, I’m not keen to learn. But I will for our relationship and children. The household chores are not evenly split right now. My fears are x, y and z. Do you have any ideas how we could sort this out now to give me time to take lessons and also time to relax?

If he comes up with an idea of leaving the washing up til later and he will do it, I think you should go for it. If you’re always jumping on stuff immediately your dp never has time to do it. Then you create a self perpetuating cycle, which breeds his laziness and your superwomaning.

When dh and I had been together a couple of years, I got fed up with always being the one to do the washing up, cleaning, washing etc. So I decided he needed to share. On a few occasions I just left the dishes for 3 bloody days just washing anything up I needed. Then another time it was about a week. I realised I’d been trained by my mother, who clears up immediately and cleans several times a week. Now I’m disabled and chronically ill. He does almost everything in the kitchen. Tidies up immediately.

Sometimes much as our partners need training into good habits so do we and one of the good habits is getting our partners to share the jobs with us.

I'm the only driver in my family and it's a pain in the butt. My DH can no longer drive since a brain operation depleted his vision - it's not his fault but I still get fed up sometimes. The idea of your partner being able to drive, but choosing not to, would be a deal breaker for me.

I completely get it, I refused to try for kids until DH had passed his test. I would guess marriage/getting engaged is the gateway to the same thing.

Being the lone driver in a family is a lot of work, you basically become a chauffeur. It's probably a gripe for him with one child, but imagine two or three, different schools, clubs, parties, appointments... It's not a life I'd want when the other person could just so easily learn to drive. (Which mine did, passed his test in 3 months, suddenly wasn't the big issue he thought it was).

Learn to drive OP, for you if not for DP, but make sure he does a bit more round the house too.

The fact that he is willing to set up home with you and you talk about saving together for a house deposit makes it odd that getting married depends on a skill. You could say, no marraige until you learn to clean a house.
Take the opportunity to learn to drive and get your licence. There is never a right time to meet that expense. It will widen your options in life, especially with a child.