Is it reasonable for DP to say he won’t propose until...

[WhiteKnuckleRide]

I have learned to drive?

Bit of background: We have been together four years, live together, no children together but I have DS(6) from previous relationship. DP is great with DS. We both work full time, both earn the same. I do most of the household duties. I don’t drive.

We work different shifts so DP gives me a lift to do the school run and takes me to work in the morning. In the afternoon I walk or get a taxi home.

FWIW even if I could drive, we wouldn’t bother getting a second car and would share, so the current arrangement would still stand. I have said many times I don’t mind walking or taxiing in the morning but he doesn’t start work until the afternoon so he says he may as well take us. He obviously drives every time we go anywhere as a family too - cinema, food shopping, weekends away etc.

I have had lessons before but never got as far as taking my test. I’m a very nervous driver and last time I stopped because my vision was so bad. I have since gotten glasses so that wouldn’t be a problem now, however we are saving a deposit to buy a house and I would struggle to pay for lessons while I am trying to put everything I can into savings, without dipping into those. I would like to start driving again after we have bought a house.

Tonight DS asked if me and DP were going to get engaged one day. I just smiled and said “hopefully”. DP said that won’t be happening until mummy learns to drive. I just laughed and said “don’t be a knob” to which he replied “I’m being serious”.

AIBU to think that his decision to ask me to marry him should be based on his feelings towards me and our future as a couple rather than a condition I have to fulfil? Or is he being completely reasonable in his wish for me to have this practical skill before he will marry me? I am asking because I’m genuinely unsure whether to feel angry at what he said and would love to hear different opinions.

Dear god woman don’t marry someone who thinks he’s too good to clean up after himself and doesn’t pull his weight.

Expect more for yourself and provide a good role model of an equal partnership to your daughter.

Also, marriage should be something agreed to by two responsible adults together. It’s not something you earn by being a good girlfriend or doing what he wants so he thinks you’re worthy of it. That’s genuinely awful.

I think he's a knob, OP. Mind you, unless you live in some six-fingered backwater where there is only one bus a week, I think it's no big deal that you don't drive a car. I live in London and at least half my close friends (and I) don't drive. Cars are a burden and a nuisance when you live in a city.

But I also think he's a knob because he seems to think that he's somehow your boss or your superior, and that you have to impress him before he will propose to you. He either doesn't want to marry you at all or, like a lot of tiresome, sexist men, he thinks that The Proposal is something he can dangle over your head like a dog treat in order to make you obey and Know Your Place.

Can totally understand why someone may not want to be the sole driver and would choose not to settle down long term with someone who didn’t drive but it’s an a but shit to announce that to her after they’ve moved in together and set up family.

I could kind of see where he was coming from if he’s found himself in a situation he’s taxiing the OP around but as she says she’s always managed fine beforehand and can again. It sounds like an excuse not to get married at all. He knows your saving up to buy a house togetherness and that you can’t afford it so it buys him time (make sure you’re name is on everything if you’re not married when you buy the house). If he’d said he wants you drive before you moved into together and made commitments to buy property together that would be one thing, and he’s not saying he’s unhappy in the relationship or that he will leave if you don’t learn, just he won’t marry you. That’s shit in my opinion.

I don’t drive, have gone through phases of starting to learn has never given me ultimatums about learning to drive and if he did he’d be told to fuck off. Sometimes he will offer to take me where I’m going, sometimes I make my own way. The trips to my family I have five family always offering to come pick me up or I get the bus but dh come stay because he wants to see them too. I’ve always made my own way to work and if he’s finished before me he does head straight home and start chores so that by the time I did get home we can just chill out for the evening.

He’s not pulling his weight around the house is bad enough but leaving his dirty plates for you to pick up when you get home after a days work? That would be the dealbreaker for me, men who don’t pull their weight with housework tend to do the same with their children so if you plan babies together that’s a discussion you want to have beforehand or you’ll find yourself working full time, doing all housework and all baby stuff. My dh works away min-fri and still manages his share of housework, my sil works shifts and earns a lot more than bil but she doesn’t get to opt out of housework. If he worried abiut waking people up there’s quite chores he can do, ironing is pretty silent.

Im sorry if it sounds harsh but If he wanted to be married to you he would marry you. A lack driving license isn’t bothering him enough to leave, and as he’s been you for several years now if it was a dealbreaker he’d have gone, sounds like excuses. :(

ltb, full of red flags

I should probably point out my now DH did learn to drive and does do his fair share of driving and housework.

I think you should try and separate out the 2 issues - driving and his lack of help! Under every scenario learning to drive would improve your situation. Either you learn and be starts to help more and you get married and live happily ever after OR you learn to drive and he shows himself to be an even lazier CF with no excuses to being a CF now so you separate but now you as a single mum can at least drive and that gives you tremendous independence!

He won't marry you but he will live in the current state of things? It's an odd position to take. If he didn't want to be in a relationship with a non driver then why is he?

There's no point learning to drive an automatic if you have a car with gears because you still won't be able to drive your family car !

Nope - if it was a 'deal breaker' he wouldn't want to live with you.

It's not a deal breaker, it's a way to make it your fault you aren't married, not his.

He doesn't want to marry you. He doesn't want to be the one in the wrong about that.

**Well, there's another thread where tons of women say they wouldn't marry a man who didn't drive.

I can see his point, OP. Just have the lessons.YABU**

^This

You learn how to drive and he learns to do half the housework, sound a like much fairer contract for marriage. How romantic.

I wonder if the driving thing has to do with future children together and how it might become more of an issue without you driving or what if he changes jobs.

It will also be a huge issue if you have more children while he does barely anything around the house.

I worry that the minute I can drive I’ll be expected to do it alone and it’ll be one more thing he doesn’t do.

Do you ever also worry that if you married him the exact same thing would happen with other areas of your life, albeit in that case because he believed you couldn't then walk away regardless of how much worse he became?

I do often wonder though, how much less helpful he would be if I could drive. For example at the moment we do all our weekly shopping together. I worry that the minute I can drive I’ll be expected to do it alone and it’ll be one more thing he doesn’t do. He will claim there’s no point us both going!

In theory it doesn’t take two people to do it, it’s a job he should be able to do in his. We get ours online now but previously one of us went for shopping while the other got on with stuff at home, cooking mainly falls to me but dh could follow a list or check cupboards etc for what we need if I hadn’t written one.

An adult man should be more than capability of getting some weekly shopping for his family. If you think he’s gonna weasel of it if you drive cos it doesn’t need you both, beat him to it and say it doesn’t need two people so can he manage it on his own while you do a b or c. Something like “dp do you want to go to the supermarket for a weekly shop while start cleaning the bathroom? Or would you rather do the bathroom?”

He really doesn't sound like a keeper tbh.

I can see his point with the driving thing. He sounds like a douche for the rest of it though, and doesn't sound like someone you should be waiting for a proposal from.

Op, you’re giving evasive answers. If he’s on a late shift, why isn’t he doing housework in the morning beforehand? You’ve said it’s too late for him when he gets in....

She said it’s because he’s tired Alienspaceship. Poor man. It must be that the OP is never tired and therefore happy to act as the cleaning fairy

I wouldn't want to marry a non-driver too, for all the reasons listed above. The not sharing housework is a red herring as she says the only extra she does is take a couple of cups ought if the bedroom and make the bed.
Look at all the extra involved in being the only driver in the household - something non- drivers simply don't appreciate because they haven't experienced it.

Alienspaceship Sorry if I’m being evasive, I don’t mean to be. I’m trying to avoid drip feeding and getting into moaning about unrelated issues. He admits he can be lazy. He knows he could do more in the morning before work. I also have higher standards than him. Eg. Both spent the day together off work today, I washed up plates/cups about 6-8 times during the day because I like to keep on top of it. If I’d left it to build up he wouldn’t have had a problem doing it all at the end of the evening, but I can’t stand leaving it so I just do it as I go along.

OP, regardless of the reasons why you should or shouldn't drive, please read AnoukSpirit's posts again and again. This goes far beyond reasonable and he's giving you a glimpse of what your married life would be like and it's not one that I'd choose for myself or anybody I cared about.

Your 'D'P makes me shudder, he's an arse of the highest order and you don't deserve him... you deserve somebody much better, somebody who will treat you as an equal and want to marry you without let or hindrance or a stack of conditions that you'll have to meet, now and in the future.

Who the fuck does he think he is? 'angry]... and more importantly, who are you?

That is barmy and incredibly offensive. You'd said hopefully and he said that!!!

Can't believe anyone would support his actions for a moment. This cannot be his real reason.

And so cruel of him to choose something you're fearful about.

He was really dredging the barrel of excuses wasn't it. He couldn't say 'When Mummy is no longer determined to live in an unsanitary hovel' or 'When Mummy has stayed clean for a year after rehab' or 'When Mummy has served her term for hitting the police officer and seems truly sorry '. He can only come up with 'When she can drive. I would be withdrawing my 'hopefully' on the grounds of lack of creativity.

It sounds as if he is pissed off at being the only driver and he dropped that warning into a conversation in a passive aggressive way to show how he was feeling.

I can see his point to be honest OP. I could not imagine being with someone who could not drive when there are no barriers to them doing so.

DP gives me a lift to do the school run and takes me to work in the morning. In the afternoon I walk or get a taxi home.

All those lifts would start to grate to be honest and the cost of taxi's would top that annoyance off especially when you are saving for a deposit. I was a terribly nervous learner but I passed my test and am very glad I did. I didn't use a car for years but then I had to and found it an invaluable skill throughout my life.

The issues like him not taking cups to the sink to wash them are a different issue imo.

It’s a weird condition to put on a marriage proposal but not having both adults drive is a pain in the ass!

Try an automatic. My DP is a driving instructor and he is always saying how much easier an automatic is (although we don’t drive one and he doesn’t teach in one)

Yes, he's BU to make marriage conditional on that, but I don't think he's B at all U to want you to learn.
Many of us will have been nervous, or very nervous, while learning, and even maybe for some time after passing. But it gets so much easier with practice and is such a useful skill. And to be frank, a non driving partner can be a bit unfair on the other, since it means they invariably have to be the non-drinker on nights out, and the sole driver on long journeys.

@MsVestibule

"If he ever does get round to proposing, tell him you'll give it some consideration when he does 50% of the housework."

Yes to this!!!