Was I a terrible parent or was the woman BU?

[poppy2006]

In the library in the kids' section my DCs (nearly 3 and 15 months) were a bit squealy and shouty.

Woman covers her ears and says "For gods sake, can't you keep them quiet?"

Me or her?

I think it's more accurate to say, parents of shouting and squealing children, who don't address the shouting and squealing, in a library, are not being respectful or considerate to the other people there. And sending the message to her children that they do not have to be considerate of where they are either.

It is because OP allowed it. And this would be a reasonable assumption, because if she had been trying to address their behaviour, the other person wouldn't have asked her to address it.

*quiet

You probably have a higher tolerance to younger kids noise, especially your own kids. As I have got older my tolerance has decreased. A little noise is acceptable, it depends whether it was prolonged. The library is for everyone and you should be considerate (as should she).

No one should be squaking or shouting in public or at home. You should have controlled your children. But the covering the ears thing is overly dramatic, it's like what a toddler does.

Dh as an annoying habit of talking to me during films or at the theatre, without doing so sotto voce , so I always end up telling him to shut up shush . He doesn't seem to know how.

I've taught ds (who is now 18) to speak sotto voce in the appropriate places (like libraries ) - but I've done so too well, as he makes me speak really really quietly if I want to say anything to him when we're at the cinema. But at least he lets me speak - he's even more annoyed than me when dh tries to talk to him too loudly

But the covering the ears thing is overly dramatic, it's like what a toddler does.

It is not overly dramatic if you have sensory processing disorder, which many autistic people have. It’s self protection. Please show a little more understanding.

Going to a library, not allowing children to play, and telling them they can't make noise won't work with under fives

Under 5s have not changed. I am in my 30s and any conversation that wasn’t in a soft library voice would have had us asked to leave at any time- regardless of age. We were a lot younger than 5 when we learnt that you did not make noise in a library.

A lot of people would struggle with this kid of high pitched noise and it is not childish to put your fingers in your ears to avoid physical pain.

Yes they have their singing/reading allowed sessions but those are easy to avoid if you are looking for quiet. It’s not hard to understand that if you are not participating in a session like that you will be quieter.

People are being very harsh.

Op, your children are very young, kids can be a bit noisy. What’s the point of having children sections in libraries if kids have to sit dead quiet in them? Doesn’t make it very inviting does it? Probably why libraries are closing, they don’t really feel welcoming to young people with children.

I don't think it's reasonable to be unable to tolerate normal child noise (which of course includes occasional squealing and shouting). Maybe those people who object to it should spend more time around children so they can learn to be more considerate.

I can't quite believe I'm reading this! I have as much chance of learning to tolerate 'occasional squealing', as an amputee has of regrowing a limb. Perhaps you would benefit from some time spent with those who have hearing or sensory processing disorders. The squealing isn't just annoying/irritating/unpleasant, it's acutely painful and there's nothing that can be done to fix my hearing (months of torture attempting to retrain my hearing failed!).

But the covering the ears thing is overly dramatic, it's like what a toddler does.

It’s exactly the same as putting ear defenders on which people do to block out noise. Is putting on ear defenders overly dramatic?

for Andro

I know how hard my mum finds this, partly to do with her hearing aid I think. If a child was jumping on her foot repeatedly it would be much less painful for her, but she wouldn’t be told she was being rude for asking the parent to ask the child to stop.

Yabu, don't take your kids to a library if they can't be quiet. Libraries are quiet spaces for a reason. If kids can't comply wait until they're older or go to one of the library's kids activity events where it's expected that kids will be there.

Probably why libraries are closing, they don’t really feel welcoming to young people with children

I don’t understand this. In order to be welcoming to families, are you saying that places have to be loud and kids have to be able to run around shrieking?

Can’t there ever be a middle ground whereby people are simply respectful to others? It’s a great lesson to teach children, that you should be considerate and it’s really not hard to do.

It makes me wonder how we ever coped as kids. I’d get a stern glare if I spoke loudly on a train, let alone a library!

Unless she was in the library's quiet reading/study room, I think she was in the wrong. Libraries are community places, and kids are loud. The kid's section is very often on a different floor or room from the other parts of the library for that very reason!
She shouldn't have been hanging around the children's section if she didn't expect children to be there.

What’s the point of having children sections in libraries if kids have to sit dead quiet in them? Doesn’t make it very inviting does it? Probably why libraries are closing, they don’t really feel welcoming to young people with children

No one is saying they should sit in silence. They are saying they should use soft voices and where they don’t the OP should say something.

And libraries are not closing because they aren’t used by children. That is not what has caused the funding crisis.

Look going to a library is not essential.

If it wasn’t in the kids area (and the OP would have said so by now) then YABU. Go to the library for yourself when you don’t have kids. If you can’t, then don’t. As I said it’s not essential.

A 3 year old should be able to be quiet for a short period of time. Give the 15 month old for something to do. Grab a few books for yourself, check it out and go home. Can’t take more than 10 mins.

If you were making a leisurely trip to the adult section of the library with two squealing shouting children then YABU.

Incidentally I have a 6.5 year old and a 19 month old. My toddler is as lively as they come. But if I don’t begin to teach them appropriate behaviour they will never learn. And if they can’t behave in a certain place I don’t or won’t take them there unless it is absolutely essential. (ie a long haul trip for a dying grandparent to see their grandson for the first and last time, that’s fine, despite the potential for the toddler to kick off- toddlers running riot in the adult section of a library, less so).

You should have taken your dc outside no one should have to listen to someone else's screaming kids

What’s the point of having children sections in libraries if kids have to sit dead quiet in them? Doesn’t make it very inviting does it? Probably why libraries are closing, they don’t really feel welcoming to young people with children.
Children's sections are where the children's books are. If toddlers are going through a squealing stage then there is the option of reserving books online and picking them up. There are often singing and story time sessions on set times and days to take young children to. Squealing doesn't make the library very inviting for other children, my child was reminding me what time story time was on on a Saturday so he could avoid it from about 8 years old.

The woman is not your problem. Your problem is your children. Teach them to respect other people and not use a library as a playground.

Most libraries now are open plan. So everywhere is now a kids playground. Annoys me.

Unless she was in the library's quiet reading/study room, I think she was in the wrong.... The kid's section is very often on a different floor or room from the other parts of the library for that very reason!

I don't know any public library that has a quiet reading/study room. All the !libraries I know are open plan, with all the areas adjoining each other. One library that I know, most of the seating is next to the children's section.

Where does one go to find a quiet space?

Children are not being excluded from libraries, they are welcome as long as they behave appropriately. It's people who want a quiet place to sit and read or study who are being excluded.

It's a library. Why are you letting your children be 'squealy and shouty' in a confined public space being used by other people, especially one that usually promotes the need for quiet? If volume control is a problem, maybe running around the park or at soft play centre would be better while they're still so little? There's a time and a place for children to let off steam. A library ain't it, OP.

That high pitched squealing sound toddlers and very young children make goes right through me. It's like nails on a bloody chalkboard. I've pressed my tragus flat to try and block it out many times in the past. It's not an attempt to be dramatic, the sound just makes me fucking shudder. It's really unpleasant. My 5yo nephew has never been taught about volume control. He squeals and screams all the damn time, and it's simply batted away as, 'Oh, he's just a child!' I can only manage him in 5 minute bouts. It's fucking awful.

A children's section is inviting to children. That's why it has little tables and chairs, brightly coloured bookcases. It's why there are often little bits of duplo to entertain tiny siblings whilst an older one picks out a book.

They are not so entitled parents can let their kids scream and shout then declare it's acceptable because it's a children's section. It's a children's section of a library.

This is not a dedicated session for the children to sing along to their nursery rhymes. This is a parent who is not addressing her children's behaviour in a specific environment.

Depends what kind of library. Our local village library is very child friendly and isn't really a quiet place.