Was I a terrible parent or was the woman BU?

[poppy2006]

In the library in the kids' section my DCs (nearly 3 and 15 months) were a bit squealy and shouty.

Woman covers her ears and says "For gods sake, can't you keep them quiet?"

Me or her?

I was in a bookshop once with two dc about the same age as yours, and the eldest one started having a toddler tantrum. He was on the floor screaming and I couldn't have moved him (plus his sibling too) anywhere if I'd tried. I had to wait for him to realise he wasn't going to get his way, take a breath and listen so that I could calm him. Which he did. During the ordeal, a man turned to me and said something similar "For god's sake can't you shut that child up". No. I couldn't. It was patently obvious I couldn't. On the plus side, having been through that experience and realised it wouldn't get him anywhere, my dc1 didn't act like that again. Sometimes nobody is in the right.

I think there is always a rush to introduce your children to new experiences before they are really old enough to appreciate or learn from them. It's like taking a baby swimming when they are a few weeks old, it's for the parents benefit not the baby. Same with libraries. A three year old can develop a love of books without having to set foot in a library. Unless it was an event aimed at toddlers they should go elsewhere to let off steam.
I never went to a library as a small child but when I was old enough to read I went every week to choose new books. You weren't allowed to speak above a whisper but I adored the place.
And squealing is never ok at any age unless in the middle of a field IMO

@Courtney555 I could have written your comment word-for-word.

YABU for allowing your children to squeal and shout, and since you haven’t said you were dealing with their behaviour it’s fair to assume that you weren’t

Nobody expects kids that age to be silent but they do expect parents to actually parent and not just look on adoringly while their kids scream and run around annoying everyone else

TBH, I think I'd like to know the secret of anyone who can keep a 3yo and a 15 mo quiet anywhere, including a library!

You take them out of the library. And if you apply this rule every time you want them to behave in some way then they do learn quite quickly.

Our library has a singing section for children right in the middle of the room. Anyone who wants quiet goes upstairs. Kids section has kids in it, kids are noisy, anyone who doesn’t get that is grumpy and should go somewhere else

Yabu, very.
*
Her. And I am a librarian. Unless you were in an area marked for silent study, you can be as loud and squealy as you like.
And why i only go to the one library near me.

SoupDragon Yes, I'm really not sure when I started going. Like you, I started reading early and obsessively, but I think I probably just read books from home and school and if I didn't have enough books, I suspect I probably re-read what I had. My best guess is that I went to the library from about six or seven.
I'll tell you what I do remember, though - it was a place to choose a book and then leave. It really wasn't a place to hang out. Maybe that's where things are now a bit confused?

Unless the 'area' is a separate room, I imagine the noise protection for everyone else from kids being 'as squealy and shouty as they like' is about as effective as the old 'non-smoking sections' in restaurants in keeping people protected from tobacco smoke. 😏

I do sort of wonder where you might go in public where you could reasonably expect quiet, if not a library.

I'd agree both of you, your kids shouldn't be squealy and shouty in the library, specifically the three year old. She should have asked more politely. If you can't control your kid nex time then take them out, explain they need to be quiet and behave and then bring them back in. If they do it again, leave.

It's not hard to teach a three year old how to behave unless there are additional needs.

Libraries should be quiet places for reading and study. Not everyone has quiet places at home for this - what about people who go there because their kids are being normally noisy at home?!!

It is wonderful to encourage kids to read but you can do this without taking kids who are too young to be quiet to a library. Wait until they are older.

I don't agree with older children being noisy either - they have to work quietly at school so why not in a library.

But the simplest way is to create children's libraries in sound-proof facilities.

young children aren't expected to be quiet in the library, they encourage noise with all the musical/book bug sessions they all seem to hold now, if you need complete peace for work/study, you're best going to a large, central library where it's still expected to be completely quiet.
yanbu .

All these anti-OP responses are exemplary of the generally anti-mother, anti-children leaning of mumsnet: makes me wonder how many people on here have any real sympathy with mothers at all. Ok, maybe OP could get her children to keep the noise down a bit, but maybe she couldn’t. Maybe she was tired, or distracted. She wasn’t rude, she was probably exhausted from looking after two small children. Ok, a small child making noise wasn’t ideal for this other patron for that moment, but what she said was extremely rude, hostile, designed to hurt and it’s attitudes like hers that keep some mothers feeling like we have to live on the edges of this judgmental and anti-child society. There was no need for her to say anything at all! Fingers in ears? How childish! Why not offer to help out in some way, instead? Wouldn’t that sort of tolerance and communality make our shared social spaces much nicer?

@Courtney555 100% agree

our library hosted a toddler event I brought my twins and they were full of chat and I was told to pack and go...cried all the way home. they weren't that bad and the other mums complain dad I d be asked to leave...never went back

I would like to go to my library because of my neighbours horrifically screamy and noisy children that they let run riot at all hours.

But I can't get peace there, because of people chatting, kids being noisy and groups playing bridge and having knitting circles.

That is not being inclusive - it actively excludes the people who specifically need a library to read books!

You should have taken them outside.
It shouldn't make a difference if it was the children's section, other children shouldn't have to hear that either.

actually I forgot to add our local library has toy boxes, play kitchen, ride on's, board games etc as well as drawing and weekly treasure hunts/quizzes for older kids, it's rarely (never) quiet

It is very good for three year olds to learn quiet bahaviour in certain places for a short period of time. 3 is old enough to understand that its nice to look at books and behaving. If they cant take them out

Banana you’re talking absolute rubbish.

Maybe she was tired oh for fuck’s sake that’s ridiculous. The OP hasn’t, at any point, made excuses. She’s asked a straightforward question.

I’m tired so can’t be bothered therefore can behave in any way I feel like is maybe ok until about age 4, but adults have responsibilities.

The UK is absolutely not ‘anti-child’ either, I can assure you. There’s nowhere to get away from them! 😂

TheBananaStand2 repecting other people's need for quiet in a librabry is anti-mother? Don't be ridiuclous.

All she had to do is come bak another day when they could be quieter - or you know, when the kids are old enough to actually read.

I don't know if people did take three-year-olds to the library when I was a child

My mum’s sisters used to take her when she was 4. That was around 1950. She took me and my brother pretty much from birth (1970s).

The library we went to in the 70s had a children’s section you could definitely talk in. No toys, but the only completely silent area was a separate adult reading room (with thick doors, so soundproofed). I used to go in there to do my homework sometimes when I was doing my GCSEs, it was bliss (like a university library). Converted into flats now.

It doesn’t have to be one extreme or the other

Perfect silence isn’t viable with small children around and with a big kids area they obviously want children in.

However, allowing your children to shriek and squeal without at least trying to stop that level of noise in any way is entitled and selfish.

So you were both unreasonable.

What “consequences” for a loud MUMMY?
You sound extremely tedious, op. Take your kids to soft play.