To ring ds's school over this draconian policy and its implementation?

[stillpinching]

DS1 started secondary school this month after a summer of counting down the days and so far he is mainly loving it. They are very big on achievement points and there is competition between the houses for them and extra for whoever gets the most in their house/year etc. Ds has grumbled a bit about how he'll never win etc, but he was a high achiever in a tiny primary school so it was always going to be a shock to the system to be one of 200, and we've spoken a lot about doing his best, taking pride in his work for its own sake and the fact that these systems are always imperfect. Overall, he is happy about the ones he's got rather than moaning about those he hasn't, iyswim. Some teachers have told him they've given him points and then not put them on the system (we get phone notifications) and that's annoying, but I've encouraged him to politely remind them if he can, and to not make too big of a deal of it - though the school does in fact make a big deal of the points...

The school is also big on uniform and pupils carry a card which staff can sign if there is any problem with the uniform, including shirts untucked. Today I saw this card for the first time and saw that ds got a cross on his second day. Apparently he came out of the toilet with his shirt slightly untucked, as did his friend, who also got a cross. However, tonight ds suddenly burst into floods of tears over it and was inconsolable for a time. He is upset because his friend somehow got the tick removed (presumably his parents rang in?) and was there the next day showing round a brand new card. Also, his head of year came and did a 'card check' at some point this week and ds and one other were the only ones with crosses. They had to stand up and she made some comment about how they better not get more etc. Ds says he was humiliated. I think he needs to be resilient and have done my best to play it down, but it was horrible seeing him so upset.

He was so well motivated after attending the taster days last term and all I heard about for days after was what this woman had said in the assembly, but now he feels she hates him. Of course I have played it down and tried to put it in perspective for him, but I'm a bit cross. Of course it was fair he got the cross, but if they're going to be that strict, how did the other boy get a new card the next day and show off about it?

I would like to speak to the head of year as in her position I would like to know that a child had taken my words so much to heart, but perhaps that's silly? While I'm at it, I'd like to mention that teachers should be putting the points on the system if they've promised them, especially since the school makes such a thing of them. AIBU?

Yup, teaching kids to subvert shitty rules and mock bullies who are too keen to throw their weight about is much better than telling them that 'rules are to be obeyed'. TBH when a school introduces one of these silly uniform policies, what's needed is calm, polite resistance from both pupils and parents. They can't exclude the whole lot of them, after all. If it's a hot day, the whole class should take off their blazers. Parents should repeatedly write to the school and the governors, pointing out that petty uniform rules are actively harmful, and stating they will not comply.
No matter what, you can only govern with the consent of the governed. If the whole school refuses to comply with a rule, then the rule will need to be removed.

Sounds like you’ve dealt with the situation calmly and rationally to me OP and played it down to your son the right way. I think YANBU to be annoyed at the way it’s been handled by the school and having a quick word with his tutor sounds fine!

Mrspenfold123

I don't misunderstand you at all, there is a huge difference between standing up for something you believe in and against something that you believe is wrong and harassing someone so much that it causes them to have "a mental breakdown".

If (as you say) people support you, you should be able to get the rule/s changed without destroying someones life. To do otherwise would be "petty", "vindictive" and "bullying".

Lizzie48 Couldn't agree more. I'm a Yr 7 Form Tutor and I'm very gentle and smiley with them.
Emails are easier for teachers - generally - than the phone. It means we can reply in the evening via the school email system. We cannot - and should not - reply by phone using anything but the school phones.

They are unrelated. But you did miss the point. Which was to say that the power-crazed bureaucrats that make up this shit are usually not able to cope with being effectively challenged. Trump is a prime example.

If you read what I said as suggesting I think harassing innocent people is OK, you misunderstood - completely the opposite.

They break-down when challenged not because of the challenge per se. But because the kind of person that inflicts these stupid rules is generally unstable.

God uniform cards sound horrendous. My boys would permanently be losing theirs or they’d be washed and turn to pulp or they’d up screwed up at the bottom of their bags - they would be always in detention.

I like the pp photocopying the card subversion.

OP I would email the school politely in a ‘just to let you know my son is struggling’ type way. Schools like to go on about how they suppprt MH in teens these days, so will be interesting to see whether they can get their heads around their stupid rules making well behaved children anxious.

FWIW I have a severely disabled child & send many emails each week regarding his needs to various people involved in his care / no longer at school but for a long time we were exchanging emails pretty much daily - it’s why School worked so well when things got complicated. I have hardly ever emailed for my younger kids - would go whole years without a single email, but I have when we have needed to and I maybe would give the school a heads up in this sort of situation - and watch the response.

I think I said earlier in the thread to not bother talking to the school but that was largely because I didn’t think you’d get very far with a bootcamp school. I think I said look for another school, but that doesn’t sound possible, so actually I would give them a chance.

Raising a concern and flagging up that your child has gone from excited to upset & anxious doesn’t make you ‘that’ parent & the school response will tell you a lot.

I’m a teacher and often forget to put things in the system however I shouldn’t. If the house points are such a big thing then staff should be on side with this and putting them on the system regularly.
These things are important to the little ones and humiliation is not going the achieve anything except resentment. I would complain politely via email to the head of year. If there is no response then sent it again and cc in a member of the senior team. Be THAT parent. You are only asking for fairness.
Also get your son a copy of You are awesome by Matthew syed. Read it together. It will build resilience.

Mrspenfold123

the trick is to huminliate them as much as possible...

...the Stupid Hitler character will usually have a mental breakdown,

This is what you posted, it contains very little about standing up to someone and more about how to bully them out of a position.

You've then posted

They break-down when challenged not because of the challenge per se. But because the kind of person that inflicts these stupid rules is generally unstable.

as justification of pushing someone over the edge, just not very nice.

@ReanimatedSGB some schools will happily exclude them all.

A school local Toni's was on the news a couple of years ago after sending home over half its students in the first day of term for incorrect uniform. They kept it up for two weeks when the children's and parents finally obeyed the rules.

Pity the parents weren't better organised (as in union-type, collective action). It's possible to push back hard, and make a school SLT look like fucking idiots so they are the ones who have to climb down. Perhaps what's needed is a little manual for parents on how to deal with this sort of school effectively... (how to petition properly, reject the school's pettiness in a calm and polite fashion, what to say to the media that will make them less likely to dismiss you as prole scum with 'no respect').

The education system is going to hell in a handcart.
A uniform card ?
Are you actually serious ?
I've clearly been labouring under the misapprehension that kids go to school to get a useful grounding in academics.
In fact a substantial number of them can't even spell or use grammar properly upon leaving .
What in the name of God are these education chiefs playing at ?

I'm guessing it's an academy. Or somewhere that operates in a similar way. Schools that excessively nit pick about uniform, hairstyles etc are usually "lots in the window little in the stockroom" places. My DS1's secondary became an academy when he was year 9. He has SEN and the system just chewed him up and spat him out with no GCSE's. He was not worth investing in as he couldn't get C's whereas if he'd been borderline I bet they'd have tried harder. The same chain took over the local junior school over the summer and I've refused to send DS2 there. I understand the need to look well turned out and keep order but when kids are being excluded for having grey rather than black socks on for year 4 PE well that's ludicrous. If you think things are not working out then see someone and keep pushing for change. Or move school if that's an option. These places care about nothing but exam results and ofsted (on an institutional level, individual staff members are often lovely and fed up with the system as evidenced by the high turnover locally since academies arrived).

I do think secondary schools should prepare parents and pupils (information) with regard to behaviour points and reward systems before they start. Pupils can be prepared better and accept that they have to take responsibility and see that life isn't always fair.

stillpinching I hope your son has a better week. I totally understand where you are coming from, my son was a high achiever from a small village primary when he started yr7 at a 180person per year grammar school. He really struggled in the first couple of months getting detentions/being told off for silly things despite being happy/wanting to attend and please the teachers etc.

Your school sounds similar to ours with the achievement points & house system, getting the phone notifications and it being a huge deal to the kids! Ours is strict with uniform but no cards thankfully.

It does get easier though. They learn quickly that rules are rules and they need to follow them/do homework/not talk when asked not to etc or risk detention. I suppose thats why they are so harsh initially so that the children get the message.
We constantly had to tell our son in year 7 sometimes things are unfair, sometimes people don't get in trouble when they should or you get in trouble and your friend doesn't and sometimes teachers just won't like you no matter what you do.

Looking back, we feel as parents we and his primary school didn't really prepare him well enough for secondary school & how different it would be. We were maybe too naive and thought he would be fine, maybe he should have been a bit more resilient and maybe we should have made more of a point that life at secondary school isn't as easy as it is at primary but he was literally just turned 11 when he started so he was still a little boy!

Our son is now in year 9, has a lovely set of friends and is getting on really well. He realises the achievement points aren't the most important thing in the world. Sometimes he gets them & doesn't know what he's done well, sometimes the teachers forget & he has to politely remind them. It just isn't the big deal it was made out to be in year7.. He also now realises he wont always win or be the best at everything and he is fine with that but its very hard when thats all they've really known.

Maybe see how he gets on this week then you could try dropping the form tutor an email to see if there is anything you should be worried about/need to know as he was worried/upset. Thats how we approached it with our school and honestly the teachers were pleased that we were taking an interest in our sons schooling, I don't think for one minute we were labelled "that parent or that family".

Good point. I was surprised that children in year 7 dd's class got after school detentions for a first piece of forgotten homework in their first full week of school. You'd think they'd hold off a bit. Dd1 in year 10 in the same school said it's because that particular department are "savage." Not sure what the other depts do

Sounds like they're trying to hammer the rules home at the start of the year, to really get the point across. Your son has been unfortunate in that he was probably being made an example of.

I think I'd just let it go, to be honest. I certainly wouldn't do as some posters have suggested and start encouraging your son to sneer at the rules.

If he feels he's being unfairly picked on again, then maybe have a word with his form teacher or whoever is appropriate. But choose your battles would be my advice.

From what DS has told me it seems a usual occurence points promised are not awarded later. But some children do ask the teacher to put them while DS doesn't as he can't be bothered.

CanteverthinkofagoodoneWe use a similar set up with parents getting notifications through for positives/negatives. Students are quite vocal if we forget to put them on (in a nice way anyway because I ask mine to remind me if I forget).

No, we really, really need to support our children to defy this harmful bullshit. We need to have their backs. Unless what we want for our children is for them to grow up into frightened, compliant mugs who are easy for shitty employers (like Amazon and Sports Direct) to ruthlessly exploit.If your DC are being subjected to this shit, contact other parents; engage with them, put collective pressure on the school. We need to teach children to distinguish between sensible rules that are for everyone's comfort and safety etc (such as not running on the stairs, for example), or for the benefit of the majority (such as doing your homework and not disrupting lessons) - and petty tyranny which has no purpose other than to feed the ego of the bully in charge and reinforce the idea that children, poor people and the 'lower orders' need to be ruthlessly controlled so that they don't get ideas above their station.

@ReanimatedSGB I completely agree. I currently work in an environment that sounds a lot like this school, and it's impossible to do anything about it because everyone's attitude is just "rules is rules".

Shirts untucked, points off? Standing up in front of others to be berated in front of fellow students... WTF kind of school is this? Is this a boarding school? Are you paying tuition for the child to attend? If you are then you have power. Remember, The customer is always right. Good Lord, the teachers in America would never pull such a thing.. they would find a gun pointed in their face the following school day....and that would be from the parents!! Lol SMH

OP said it's not a private school.