To ring ds's school over this draconian policy and its implementation?

[stillpinching]

DS1 started secondary school this month after a summer of counting down the days and so far he is mainly loving it. They are very big on achievement points and there is competition between the houses for them and extra for whoever gets the most in their house/year etc. Ds has grumbled a bit about how he'll never win etc, but he was a high achiever in a tiny primary school so it was always going to be a shock to the system to be one of 200, and we've spoken a lot about doing his best, taking pride in his work for its own sake and the fact that these systems are always imperfect. Overall, he is happy about the ones he's got rather than moaning about those he hasn't, iyswim. Some teachers have told him they've given him points and then not put them on the system (we get phone notifications) and that's annoying, but I've encouraged him to politely remind them if he can, and to not make too big of a deal of it - though the school does in fact make a big deal of the points...

The school is also big on uniform and pupils carry a card which staff can sign if there is any problem with the uniform, including shirts untucked. Today I saw this card for the first time and saw that ds got a cross on his second day. Apparently he came out of the toilet with his shirt slightly untucked, as did his friend, who also got a cross. However, tonight ds suddenly burst into floods of tears over it and was inconsolable for a time. He is upset because his friend somehow got the tick removed (presumably his parents rang in?) and was there the next day showing round a brand new card. Also, his head of year came and did a 'card check' at some point this week and ds and one other were the only ones with crosses. They had to stand up and she made some comment about how they better not get more etc. Ds says he was humiliated. I think he needs to be resilient and have done my best to play it down, but it was horrible seeing him so upset.

He was so well motivated after attending the taster days last term and all I heard about for days after was what this woman had said in the assembly, but now he feels she hates him. Of course I have played it down and tried to put it in perspective for him, but I'm a bit cross. Of course it was fair he got the cross, but if they're going to be that strict, how did the other boy get a new card the next day and show off about it?

I would like to speak to the head of year as in her position I would like to know that a child had taken my words so much to heart, but perhaps that's silly? While I'm at it, I'd like to mention that teachers should be putting the points on the system if they've promised them, especially since the school makes such a thing of them. AIBU?

OP - don't be one of those parents. It's very early in the term, teachers are very busy & not infallible. You chose this school knowing it was strict.

I absolutely hate the phrase 'that parent'. Tbh, I've never even thought about what my DDs' class teachers think of me. DD1 has SN as a result of being adopted and needing hearing aids and glasses. She also shows signs of being on the autistic spectrum, and is 2 years behind with in Maths.

She had an assessment by a therapist 2 years ago, and the school was given a copy of the report. We thought they were aware of its contents and were making use of it in order to help DD1. It turned out that they weren't at all, it had been locked in a drawer because it was 'confidential'. Last year's class teacher was horrified, as she hadn't known about the report at all.

Okay, our DDs are in primary school, not secondary. But we'll have to keep fighting for DD1 when she's in secondary school, and we can't afford to worry about being 'that parent', so what?

Lizzie48
The phrase 'that parent' exists for a reason.

Raising concerns doesn't make someone that parent.
Asking for clarification doesn't make someone that parent.

'That parent' almost always refers to parents who (for example):

• call the school fuming because their child has been sanctioned in line with policy but they don't think rules apply to their DC
• Call the school repeatedly throughout a morning and threaten to report a member of staff to the head for not calling back (even though the teacher has probably been TEACHING for the morning)
• Decide they don't like a school rule, encourage their child to flout it and then complain when challenged
• utter the phrase 'my child would never lie when advised to be open yo the fact that children, even nice ones, can selectively spin stories
• Decide they know more about how to educate than people who've actually been trained to do it so feel compelled to tell staff how they should manage other children
• generally behave in a rude, confrontational and obnoxious manner (and probably are members of the group 'Mumsnetters who advise reporting everything to ofsted or threatening to)
• send hundreds of emails go staff where 50% is them complaining their last email from.24 hours ago wasn't replied to

Polite, reasonable parents are not that parent. Parents who have concerns and are assertive to ensure their child is educated properly are not that parent. There is a massive difference between someone reasonable and someone who's an arse.

Your circumstances are nothing like the OP's though Lizzie.

You have found yourself up against an inadequate and inefficient system. Through no fault of yours, or your child's.

The OP simply has a son who got a bit told off for uniform transgression and if his mum will let him, has probably already forgotten it!

True, the situation described by the OP is relatively trivial, though it wouldn't be in the eyes of her DS at the time. And she hasn't actually complained yet, she was venting on MN and I think she probably won't complain to the school now. It's sad, though, that he was so enthusiastic about starting secondary school and this has discouraged him. It could have been handled so differently, the teacher could have simply told him to tuck his shirt in and left it at that.

The reason I feel like I do about the term 'that parent' is because a lot of adoptive parents struggle to help schools to understand the issues surrounding adoption and they have to fight hard to get the support their children need. So they do send a lot of emails and complain about how the school are dealing with their child's behaviour. Because teachers find it very hard to understand Attachment Disorder.

Thankfully for us, our DD1 behaves well at school, she keeps all her emotions pent up all day, and then it all explodes after she comes home. But for other parents, their children act out their frustrations in the classroom. And their children end up excluded.

I think most situations are more complex than just being 'that parent' and their difficult child. Obviously, there are some difficult parents and some pupils who have become brats, but I think most family circumstances are more complicated than that.

I attendeded a very strict all girls school and the policies were baffling. Some teachers didn't care but others would follow the rules to a T. In one class we were not allowed to leave or put our hands up. I missed paid for violin lessons if they were scheduled during this class time as she wouldn't answer me when my hand was up to ask to leave (despite being allowed to leave for music lessons) and anyone came on their period they were not allowed to be excused to go to the toilet. Over the 5 years we had many girls bleed through their uniforms and onto the chairs which was humiliating. Many of us took to wearing pads when we might have been coming on.

Sounds as if we had similarly point systems to your DS. We all stopped caring about "merits" as the years went on, however, and realised that the competition for merits was actually hindering our education rather than enhancing it. Friend's DD is now at the same school and says it's drastically changed as their pastoral care and mental health of the students was abysmal. Glad to hear it's better now.

My DD1's school is beginning the uniform card system tomorrow. They have to be able to show their card at ANY point and if they don't have it, they get an after school detention. DD's uniform is always perfect so she's not worried, and she's going to keep the card in the inside zipped pocket of her blazer just in case she's ever asked for it. You can be asked for the card even if your uniform is perfect, just to check that you have it!

If it's like our school, you have to have 3 crosses on your uniform card before you get a 20 min detention. The 'I lost my card' loophole is plugged with a detention for 'losing' your card. Kids would not get a cross for not tucking a shirt in - they'd be told to tuck it in. You get a cross for jewellery, makeup, trainers etc. Would not be stood up and shamed for one cross at our place, or 3 for that matter - just the detention.
Teachers do forget to put on house points; we're permanently knackered, so forgive us. But I have no problem with a child reminding me, politely. I keep kids' names on the board if they have house pts and only rub them off when I've put the points on the system.

I’ve always fought petty bureaucracy. I did it at school and in a corporate environment. I’ve always won. The truth is most people hate this nonsense but can’t be bothered to rock the boat. There’s usually some petty-minded, vindictive control freak with low self esteem behind it, and the trick is to huminliate them as much as possible. Once the 90% see it working they’ll support you and the Stupid Hitler character will usually have a mental breakdown, then resign. It’s importsnt to stand up to the small stuff to prevent the nutjobs building a police state.

Mrspenfold123

The advocating of harassing people till they break is spectacularly fucked up and says so much more about you than them

My son started in September too. So far he’s struggling with everything which is awful to see as he loved junior school. I have been able to email the head of year and she got back to me straight away. Is that something you could do?

Only harass vindictive control freaks who deserve it. You have a duty to do so. Failure leads to Nazi Germany.

@simiisme

I think your post makes a lot of sense, obviously teachers are knackered and will forget. Maybe the issue here is that the OP's DS is new to secondary school, just at the start of year 7. What he needs to gain now is the confidence to approach the teacher and speak up for himself.

That will come, and what the OP needs to do is encourage him to speak up for himself respectfully. Teachers are not there to make him feel awful and it won't help him if his mum makes him believe that they're looking for ways to hurt him.

I haven't yet had to cope with secondary school as a parent (it's not a long way off as I said before), but surely it makes sense to work together with the teachers rather than undermining them?

Your poor boy has learnt a harsh lesson about the unfairness of life. He will be very wise by the time he gets to year eleven and will not be a snowflake but a resilient young man.

Would be questioning the system with the Head. Would ask what the system is to have crosses removed. If not given an answer that would fit with what happened with the other lad would go on to highlight why this did happen and not to your son. Would ask why whole year/school has to be informed by way of outing those affected and what purpose is intended by doing so and are students told that this would happen when starting the school. Hope your son overcomes this situation.

As an ex teacher of year 7 I would say absolutely ring in and speak to the head of year. Although the rules are valid, she should know to tread carefully with him for the moment and needs to explain the friend's cleared uniform card. She will absolutely want to build relationships with new kids, although obviously new rules need cementing and it is good practice to be unbending with this at first. As for the house points, that's an issue for either your son's form tutor or a member of senior team. This may well be a school push for the new term and be causing teething problems with system logging. From experience, it can be a nightmare. Your son sounds lovely and i'm sure he'll settle soon. Fingers crossed for you.x.

Is this school in the south westish and the policy made the papers? Out of interest..

Mrspenfold123

And the godwin's law award goes to?

Still not a reason to destroy someone's health, wellbeing and family.Only a vindictive control freak would think so.

When bullies bully, they need standing up to, as other courses of action encourage them to get worse. If a headteacher is abusing children I won’t stand by. Sorry, BBJ, If you think the abuser mental health is more important than the children’s.

Well, I do feel like a lot of people have misread what I've said, or taken the gist and then gone off on a tangent of their own.

1. Ds burst into tears out of nowhere in Friday night. Of course I wanted to speak to him about that and find out exactly what had happened. We spoke yesterday morning and then it wasn't mentioned until this evening, when he brought up hating his hoY, presumably getting that Sunday night feeling about tomorrow. I haven't gone on about it all weekend or ranted and told him it's a travesty; I've tried to help him get it in perspective.

1. I didn't choose the school knowing it was strict. It is the only school we could feasibly get to and has pretty decent results. At the open evenings the talk was all about helping all children achieve and the effort they put into making transition as painless as possible - same sort of waffle my head comes out with. Nothing much about uniform/discipline, or nothing to make me feel they were stricter than average about these things. The email about this new policy came out during the summer term, after places have been allocated. It wouldn't have caused me to change my mind about applying as I honestly don't know how we would cope if he had to get elsewhere. My issue isn't that the policy is too strict, it's that it's being applied inconsistently and with added tellings off, in public, on top of the cross on the card itself.

1. I'm a teacher in a very similar school and know how busy/tired/stretched teachers are, but I do feel if new policies are introduced and the value of them drummed into the pupils, then staff must get on board with them as well.

Overall I'm a bit sad and pissed off that ds, who was absolutely thrilled to be going to this school and who wanted nothing more than to please his head of year and has fully bought into their rewards system, has had the shine well and truly rubbed off for him less than a month in. I knew it would happen, but thought it would take longer than this.

My thoughts now are to speak to his tutor rather than his HoY and let her know how ds is feeling. I do think ds needs to be less concerned with being top and with what other people (his HoY) think of him, but just because that's true doesn't mean there isn't fault on the side of the school too. I'm irritated with all these 'mummy will make it better comments.' They're nasty - this is an 11 year old boy we're talking about. I hope 'mummy has made it better', by cuddling him, talking it over, having a bit of a joke about some aspects of it and generally reassuring him. I have no intention, and have never said I have, of asking for the cross to be removed or getting him a clean uniform card.

I went to a strict school that was extremely pedantic about uniform. I had been to a few secondary schools as we moved around the country with my dad's job so it was a massive shock to the system.

Whilst at first it was a bit of a shock to the system (and there were lots of tears) after a while I settled down and I learnt to toughen up.

I look back now and it definitely was one of the happiest school years of my life. I've even got a few of the teachers on Facebook.

I'd give it time. But yes I understand you feeling protective on his behalf.

Mrspenfold123

You are confusing doing a job with bullying,

You harassing someone and making them have a mental breakdown, that is bullying.

If you don't like the way that someone is doing a job there are other ways of dealing with it then being a bully.

Doesnt sound like a very good school to me - too many people confuse self respect and pride in appearance with being an automaton that slavishly obeys arbitrary rules.

Good grief. I used to be a cadet instructor so military dress codes applied to the teenagers while in uniform. Even in the distant days when we used to march them into the office for anything, we never seriously told them off in front of their friends or said more than 'tuck your shirt in, it's come out', 'tie your laces, you'll trip', etc. If they did it consistently, then you had a talk with them about any problems eg sizing etc and if they were doing it for defiance it was a talk with The Boss and a suggestion that they might go home and contemplate whether they actually wanted to be present (not an option for most schools, I appreciate). I also spent years doing the hair of umpteen girls to whom I had not given birth.

It's a sad day when schools are more anal about uniform on teenagers than the military cadet forces.

You’ve completely missed the point, BBJ.
I’m a live and let let live person. I couldn’t give a flying fuck if people want to tuck their shirts in or not. Their business... However, once someone in a position of authority takes it upon themselves to humiliate a defenseless child or employee, I’ll stand up to them. That is most definitely not bullying on my part.