To make 16 year old move out?

[AnAppleADay5]

After punching younger sibling (10).

Thanks.

Will reply properly when done at work. But wanted this on so replies when done.

Sit both your children down and tell them you have had enough and this is the END final straw and that it. You don't want ANYMORE violence or rude comments towards each other, if you can't get on DO NOT speak if you have a problem you come straight to mum and she will sort it. Tell them you are mum to both of them and cannot pick sides so If you have any more violence in your home towards each other there is nothing more you can do and you will have to ring the police and let them deal with it. Your DD sounds like my older sister, my mum couldn't cope anymore and she had to move out. She is now 30 odd and an addict all of her kids live with my mum and she has no contact! You need to sort this NOW! Your daughter is 16 she is an adult and should know better but your son is also not a young child either, I was helping to raise my sisters baby at 12 years old, they both need to grow up and maybe your daughter needs counselling to understand why she is so angry and violent, if she can do this to an 11 year old what would she do to someone on the street???

Having read your updates, you need to insist that she engage with professionals. If she refuses, you need to think about how you're going to ensure that your son is never physically abused again.

Some of the unsympathetic comments towards him are appalling.

I think referring yourselves to social services might be the best way forward. Alternatively ask GP for a referral to CAMHS. Probably both of these really.

Please get some help. I'm worried about your sons safety tbh.

Logits it's not nasty to say that lots of DCs go to after-school. OP is trying to do her best for both her children and neither of them seem to appreciate it.

Logits gets it whereas many others who haven’t grown up in this situation really don’t.

I grew up as the victim of sibling abuse. It was my brother who is younger by 18 months doing the bullying - he quickly became bigger than me. He would regularly beat me up and DPs couldn’t cope and often tried to say we were equally to blame or pass it off as normal sibling fighting. However, I was unsafe in my own home, he would explode over the smallest things. He despised me. Nobody really defended me and I couldn’t physically defend myself. I began to hate him too. I fantasised about him being run over and then would feel really guilty about it. I’d fantasise about being adopted out. I begged my parents to throw him out once they admitted he was the problem but still they did nothing, they never sought professional help.

I used to say really horrible things to him as my words were my only armoury. I know I sometimes goaded him but I hated him for making me feel so scared and uneasy all the time and wanted him to feel bad too as he was ruining my life. I didn’t even feel I could have friends over lest it would all blow up. I was tormented.

It’s almost impossible for a rational, emotionally mature adult to understand why a child would appear to goad their tormentor but I can see why he’s doing it. It’s the only power he thinks he has. The poor boy’s an emotional wreck.

I hope you seek professional help soon OP. Don’t let your family become like ours. I’m NC with my brother and my relationship with DPs is permanently strained.

Just read your updates. I would access SS child services immediately, either through GP or directly. And mental health services too.

I'd also ring Respect for advice on their adolescent perpetrator programmes.

It's time you stopped protecting your DD otherwise she will not learn and she could end up on a criminal charge - either of your son or someone else. If she's old enough to do damage him to send him to hospatial she's old enough to face the consequences of her actions.

The fact that DS lied for you in hospital means that he knows you will protect her which is a terrible place for him to be emotionally. That was a key point you could have stepped in to protect him, told the doctors.

Apart from anything else if he tells a teacher at school they will alert SS and it will be better for you if you have flagged the issue yourself.

*Respect contact details upthread.

@WinnieFosterTether it's nasty to call him 'emotionally manipulative' for expressing his distress to his mother.

So while your Ds loses his iPad etc for calling her fat, does she ever lose anything for pushing and shoving and hitting him?

He sees that you are closer to her, he sees her getting away with shoving him....

It is heartbreaking, and a real sign of disturbance that he lied at A&E. And you didn’t correct him. So he knows on Your eyes he had to protect his sister. And he knows you let the lie lie.

Talk to your GP. Admit how your Ds was hurt. Ask for family therapy or similiar. And te your Ds that you are telling the Dr.

Poor boy can’t even tell the truth. He has no one to turn to.

I remember going to primary school with a black eye and I'd quickly tell everyone I came across (whether they asked or not) that I ran into a door and laugh about it. Even as a small child I was very wary of causing problems for my family. But they did nothing to protect me.

I learned quite quickly that I couldn't really rely on anyone to protect me. I faced some bullying at school and it would have been easily resolved if I'd just spoken to an adult about it. My parents would absolutely have helped if I'd gone to them but at the time I didn't feel like I could. After all they'd never protected me before.

Instead I was ashamed of being bullied/weak and just accepted it and tried to defend myself as much as I could. I'd cry alone in my bedroom. To this day my parents have no idea I struggled with bullying at all.

I tried to choke myself once by squeezing my head into a plastic hanger so the hanger was tight around my neck. It wasn't a serious attempt but it was all I could think of as a primary school child. As it so happens, my brother walked in and saw it and was worried. He took the hanger off and told me I shouldn't do that. I remember pretending like I was just playing around. He was by no means as horrible as some of the siblings people have talked about on here but he had serious anger issues and my parents failed to protect me.

@stillme1

I know and I don't hate her for it. Unfortunately she died and left one massive mess nearly 20 years go.

So there you go.

OP please get help. Your poor ds ☹️ he's 10 and this is his home life, being physically abused by his violent sister while his mum seems to cover for her. I'm not blaming you but this can't go on.

Yes DD needs support, that much is obvious. She is also almost an adult, who has been warned multiple times. She should be adult enough to control her anger. Yes she probably has issues but that is not an excuse to bully and harass her brother. Yes her brother hits back with words. He might not want to seem weak and this is the only way to get back at her. Your DD needs to learn this isn't acceptable. So far she's learnt that her outbursts are kept secret and lied about. If she is violent as an adult and to people who will not keep quiet, such as people in clubs or colleagues, she will be in a heap of legal trouble. Actions have consequences

Perhaps I'm biased as u worked in a children's home with an extremely violent yoynd person, but let me tell you, she was scary when she turned. And I'm 23 and a griwn woman, not a 10 year old boy.

Sending DD to relatives isn't punishment. It's necessary to protect and safeguard your son. Because if things Carry on and something serious happens, questions will be asked about what you did to prevent it.

You can arrange support, counselling, etc for your DD while she's living away. Breathing space might do everyone good. But more importantly, it will allow your ds to sit on the sofa or come home from school without worrying that he's going to get punched or choked.

Do it for Al your sakes op but especially your son, who is at risk of serious harm

Merryoldgoat So sorry to hear that the whole thing was never fully resolved for you and that you had a mess at the end.

I never know how to put things right or even better.
If only If only! but we have to live on in life the best way we can

And to those saying the 10 year old is causing this by being provocative. How many of you could/would be kind and respectful to someone who was beating you on a regular basis?

Regardless of how awful your dad's retaliation is, you need to send your ds to his safe space (ie his room} as soon as he goes on the offensive. It's a survival skill he needs while you get the rest sorted out.

There is no room for deciding whose behaviour is less tolerable in this scenario. This is the sort of situation where true zero tolerance is essential.

Deescalate every single time.

It’s your job to supervise your progeny.

The 10 year old should learn that that sort of behaviour will lead to a physical response.

The older DD should learn that a physical response to being verbally wound up is NEVER appropriate and should she react that way out of the family home to someone else she may find herself facing arrest and prison, not protection as she has so far.

I'm really appalled at the victim blaming on here, it is exactly that, the 10 year old is a VICTIM here.

From your updates, you've been protecting your dd far too much. You've got a close relationship, you jump in to defend her against mean comments - yet she is choking your son until he's blue, and hit him so hard he had a suspected fractured eye socket. Abhorrent behaviour.

Your son falls in with the family line of protecting her too. He didn't even say where he got the punch from. This is extremely sad. Who is fighting his corner?

Stop making excuses for her. Involve ss and go from there. Your young child is bet wetting he is so anxious. A bit of name calling in the face of repeated physical violence is fucking nothing.

Has your dd always been like this with him? Is it sibling jealousy gone extremely wrong? There's a fair age gap between them, are they the only two dc you have? At 6, your dd would have been used to having you to herself when your ds came along.

I started reading this thread thinking ‘no, a 16 yo should not be kicked out’. However, given what has gone on, and what persists, I think giving some distance and having her stay with family for a few weeks would be no bad thing.

You need to spend time with your Ds and make him safe.

Abused children often ‘provoke’ a reaction because any reaction is better than constantly feeling ignored or getting no attention. Being taken to A&E by you probably felt like golden time for him. The centre of his concern. And so he rewarded you by lying about his injury.

He has told you of his helplessness and worthlessness.

I too am appalled by the victim blaming on this thread. I wonder if there is some projection going on and nerves touched illicitinf an “any male calling a female fat deserves what he gets” response

Tell her that it isn’t good for her to be so out of control that she risks doing serious physical damage, that everyone needs a few weeks to calm down. Tell her you are not rejecting her but none of you can cope with the dynamic in the house so she can get some space and calm, you will see her while she is on her family visit, go and spend time with her etc. But do NOT say it is because her brother is to blame for winding her up.

OP, you are not a bad mum. It sounds like you're all having a hard time of it,
communication and trust is breaking down, but you can restore and rebuild.

It doesn't sound like either of them are helping you at the moment, so I think the first step is to try and share a bit of responsibility for improving the relationships. Agree with everyone else, get some specialist support with this.

Make it clear to your daughter that she has a responsibility to engage, and also that there will be consequences if she doesn't. Stop protecting her from this; actions have consequences. She'll learn quickly, once she's dealing with them.

Tell your son that you've told the doctor/services what really happened, and start to rebuild that trust. Maybe let them both know how much this is affecting you and that you need them both to make more of an effort.

It also might get a little bit worse before it gets better (can sometimes be a resistance reaction) so maybe line up the relative as a bit of a timeout space for her to access if she chooses? Some time and space to reflect on her behaviour might transform the whole situation, but allow her to make that choice. Kicking her out says you've given up on her and that's the one thing you need to let her know isn't true.

Sending you all lots of hugs and

BOTH of those young people need protecting.

They are both at very sensitive ages. I cannot stress this enough.

It doesn't matter WHO is at fault. It really doesn't!! What matters is that the OP makes an action plan and sorts it.

The children will heal... They'll open up, talk, vent, raise issues and those will then be dealt with when they're taken to a professional.

I was going to say that living with extended family while a teen is often an excellent plan, but this has gone way beyond the usual ‘difficult teen’ issues.

I’d still say moving out is a good idea, but you need to go to family therapy, at the very least. Both DC need to be listened to and given support to understand what’s going on, while you sound like you could do with some help in how to get them to adulthood.
Parenting is hard - look for help.

It does matter absolutely who is most at risk.

This is a child safeguarding issue, I cannot stress that enough.

If OP has to take DS to hospital again the doctors will put 2 and 2 together and trigger social services intervention. The first person in the frame will be the OP.

*Just read your updates. I would access SS child services immediately, either through GP or directly. And mental health services too.

I'd also ring Respect for advice on their adolescent perpetrator programmes.

It's time you stopped protecting your DD otherwise she will not learn and she could end up on a criminal charge - either of your son or someone else. If she's old enough to do damage him to send him to hospatial she's old enough to face the consequences of her actions.

The fact that DS lied for you in hospital means that he knows you will protect her which is a terrible place for him to be emotionally. That was a key point you could have stepped in to protect him, told the doctors.

Apart from anything else if he tells a teacher at school they will alert SS and it will be better for you if you have flagged the issue yourself.*

100% this.
Also reading your updates makes me extremely sad for your son.
I have a 7 years older sister who used to beat me up when I was a child. I stood no chance due to the age gap. Parents never helped, cared, reacted...I used to steal and destroy her stuff I hated her so much..My behaviour was the result of her abuse. It only stopped once I was strong enough to fight back and I was a teenager then..
I remember her slapping me and pulling my hair and instead of usual crying I told her she would never hit me again and punched her so hard SHE got a black eye for a change... She never attempted to hit me again after that.

My sister is a bully. She gives herself right to hit those weaker than her if they annoy her. To this day she will have violent outbursts...towards animals...She went through years of therapy as an adult and now she is 100% content is excusing what she was doing to me and blaming our parents for it...Therapy made her feel better about herself but she is still a bully..

Your daughter is also a bully.
Only way to deal with bullies is from a position of strength. They won't stop otherwise. I would get social services involved immediately.
By protecting your daughter your are failing your son.