To make 16 year old move out?

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After punching younger sibling (10).

Thanks.

Will reply properly when done at work. But wanted this on so replies when done.

Also, I was in the 10 year old's position. My brother (who is four years older than me) would regularly beat me up during rows. I'd try to fight back but it was really no contest. He left bruises and burst my lip once. None of this stopped me from arguing with him. I knew there was always a chance he'd lash out during an argument but being a child (and quite stubborn) I struggled to control my own emotions and would say vicious things. I still hold some resentment towards my parents for not doing more to protect me. Yes I was a little shit at times, yes I was annoying. But I was a child and learned the lesson that my brother could beat me up with impunity whenever he liked. He was never punished for the burst lips or black eyes and my mother would just make jokey comments like 'you nearly killed my baby! Lolz'

And my brother has been diagnosed later on in life with some mental healthy issues that explain a lot of his behaviour during childhood

From your last posts, it’s not safe your younger child to be around your dd.
Nit if she chokes him so much he is getting blue. No wonder he is anxious!!

So YY to grand parents for a while but I think you will need one longer term solution.
Have CAMHS and SS been involved?

If he stopped provoking her would she stop being violent towards him? Seems like it's cause and effect to me. I definitely don't think you should chuck her out. The punishments for the 10 year old clearly aren't working if it's still happening. I would suggest coming down hard on both of them but also consider how you're coming across to the 16 year old. To her it probably feels like that's the only way to get him to stop as you're not getting a grip of it.

And the more violent my brother got the more vicious my comments would be. I couldn't really defend myself physically so used words to hurt him in the way he was hurting me.

If she is choking and hurting him on a regular basis you need to do far more than have her move out. This is not normal behaviour and you need specialist help and support (for both of them) in order to properly handle the situation.

OP you initially implied this was the first time she had been violent & she punched him. Then you said she choked him. So is this all the one incident or has she been violent before

Your younger child sounds terribly provocative-mocking a sensitive and hormonal 16yr olds weight is a big no no for starters, and my first thought was that you should give your daughter a serious talking to/warning but not throw her out,but as it now transpires that her punching him was not a one off -and I'd personally be more worried about the choking incident than the punch I'm not so sure.If she has somewhere safe to stay I would probably talk to her about staying there for a bit,explaining that it might be better for her not to around her tormenting brother rather than her thinking you are throwing her out as a punishment,because for her faults she is still a child and doesn't want you to hate her even if it might not seem that she really cares what you think.

I'm just scared that one day she will kill him. I've walked in in his face being blue from choaking.

Then this is a safeguarding issue.

Go into Respect.uk.net website - they have intervention programmes for teenagers using abuse in families and relationships.

This includes relationship abuse, adolescent to parent violence or abusive behaviour within the family such as sibling abuse or young parent abuse.

respect.uk.net/information-support/young-people-using-violence-and-abuse-in-close-relationships/

Telephone 0808 802 4040

Your younger child sounds terribly provocative-mocking a sensitive and hormonal 16yr olds weight is a big no no for starters

You cannot blame a 10 year old for that. People resist violence in different ways and that may be his way of expressing his anger about her treatment of him.

Sorry to say but something has made your DC like this and you'd be better tracking and dealing with that than chucking one out.
The usual response for a ds in yours' position would be never to address older sibling to avoid such a situation. Not wetting the bed in anxiety then coming out to do exactly the same thing again.
The usual response for a dd in yours' position would be to state she was leaving home because of 'that little oik". Not punching his lights out then expecting to return to status quo.
Something has gone skewiff (is that a word) and you better get to the bottom of that before unleashing them onto the world.

And I say that with a 23 yr old who wanted to leave at 17 because his little sister kept messing with his stuff.
Said little sister is now 16 and keeps shouting that she's moving out to her mates if big brother keeps taking the piss out of her clothes.
So I've been dealing with sibling rows and 'leavings' for a long time. No bed wetting or fisticuffs though. And they'll defend each other to the hilt from anyone outside this house.

I would try to rehabilitate her before I threw her out. But this would be last chance saloon.

First I would get her onto one of Respect's teen perp programmes.

I'd talk to the GP to access mental health services in the area, bearing in mid they may be obliged to contact SS due to safeguarding of the 10 year old.

If necessary I would report her to the police - if she endangers the life of a 10 year old she has to understand the gravity of what's doing and that she is no longer a child. The police can be helpful in accessing services in the area.

You cannot blame a 10 year old for that. People resist violence in different ways and that may be his way of expressing his anger about her treatment of him.

This was the case when I was a child. I knew that him hitting me was wrong and I refused to cower and accept. It probably would have been better to keep quiet but I was extremely angry at not only the violence but the fact that no one seemed to care. So I'd meet his violence with vicious words and just accepted that I may or may not get beaten up.

Is it possible for your daughter to occupy part of your house independently without having to interact too much with your 10 year old? She might respond well to having a bit of privacy and being treated as a grown up.

I wonder how she feels now after really hurting her brother badly.

The usual response for a ds in yours' would be never to address older sibling to avoid such a situation. Not wetting the bed in anxiety then coming out to do exactly the same thing again.

Do you have anything to back this up? This wasn't at all true with my brother and I.

I think making her move out just moves the problem on to someone else OP.

Moving her out is not going to solve her anger issues. More likely it will add to them. She will feel rejected by you and that does not bode well.

You need to have an honest chat with both of them. Your son needs to be more respectful to girls and women. Your daughter needs to control her anger and, as the more mature one, ignore his taunts.

I also suggest sending her to some sort of counselling or anger therapy. She needs to learn some coping mechanisms when her buttons are pushed. Go out for a walk, go see some friends, go swimming, count backwards from 10, breathing exercises, meditation etc.

You cannot blame a 10 year old for that. People resist violence in different ways and that may be his way of expressing his anger about her treatment of him.
I get that,but what we don't know is what came first, the chicken or the egg.Neither child is coming up looking like roses to be honest,but I just think throwing the older child out in anger is just going to make her anger problems worse and possibly alienate her, and could maybe leave the younger child with feelings of guilt too.

My sister and I have a similar age gap.

She’s younger and was relentless in tormenting me. I was always told as I was the older I was responsible for de-escalating it. She pulled me around by my hair, hit me, broke my stuff purposely, bit me so hard I’m still scarred 25 years later. My mum did fuck all.

One day she hit herself and made herself cry and told my mum I’d done it. My mum got really angry and didn’t believe me. My sister just smirked behind my mums back.

When my mum went I slapped her as hard as I could across her legs and told her every time she lied about me hitting her I’d do it.

She stopped after that.

The relationship with my mum never really recovered and my sister and I are still not great. In my opinion because my mum handled everything terribly.

You need to sort this out properly. Sending your 16yo away isn’t the answer.

Is there anyone else at home? I'm wondering what relationships your DCs have witnessed that they both think this behaviour is acceptable.

You can make the 16-yr-old move out but it's not going to solve either of their problems. If your DS has fallen into a pattern of name-calling and needling then that will cause problems for him outwith the home. Has your DD had violent outbursts anywhere else or is it limited to the hothouse of the family relationship with her DB? Sending her away may mean you don't have to deal with these issues but the issues will still exist and if their DM isn't going to help them then who is?

It was years of that by the way - I still feel resentful.

Does she have any additional needs? How is her behaviour at school? What does she do in her spare time, does she have friends who perhaps may be influencing her, does she use alcohol/drugs? How is her mood day to day?

Have either of the children witnessed violence or aggression in the home from you/partner?

Sorry, loads of questions, but although siblings undoubtedly know how to wind each other up, this is not typical sibling behaviour. Unfortunately, because she reacts, your DS is very likely to continue to wind her up too.

I would be deeply concerned, she could seriously harm him, or worse. Could you take her to the GP (who presumably is already aware of how one incident occurred) and seek some support with her anger. In many areas there is quite a lot of support for teens, not necessarily through the NHS (which may have long waiting lists) but also through voluntary organisations.

I can understand the temptation of getting her out of the home, but this could set her on a very difficult path. At this stage she needs help and support, but also to understand that her behaviour is unacceptable. If she injures him again and the police are involved it may be taken out of your hands anyway.

Good luck OP.

what we don't know is what came first, the chicken or the egg

There is no chicken or egg. The appropriate response to words is words. There is no justification for violence.

Throwing your DD out isn’t going to solve anything, she obviously has issues with anger that need addressing, have you thought about going the therapy/psychology route, to try and find out why she’s acting like this? that level of violence against a sibling is extreme, she is massively overreacting to the comments from your DS - who sounds like he needs to understand that certain comments can be hurtful towards people!

I'd get in touch with Children's Services and ask for a referral to the Early Intervention Service, I think. They're the experts in this sort of stuff.

What is their behaviour like at school, and are they both performing ok academically? Do they both have a network of friends? Are either of them bullies, or bullied? Do they treat you and other family members with respect? If it's just something that happens between the two of them, rather than part of a wider anger management issue, it will be easier to resolve.

Have you tried teaching her the usual anger management techniques, like walking away, breathing exercises, adopting non-confrontational ways of expressing her anger etc?

In the meantime, I'd set some very strong ground rules, eg no baiting by making personal or abusive comments, no lashing out physically, and sanctions, eg time out for both, in their own rooms, without phones/internet when things get heated, withdrawal of privileges such as clubs, outings hobbies, grounding them etc. And rewards, too - maybe a small gift or treat each if they go a week without incident.

I don't think anyone should make a 16 year old move out, she's still a child, she can't leave FTE and she's still your responsibility.

And what about their father? What does he think, and what input is he prepared to have?

Incidentally, I know a pair of siblings where the younger needled the older to the point where she ended threatening the younger sibling at knifepoint. It was terrifying at the time, but that phase only lasted a year or so and they became really close a couple of years later and still are. This too may pass, and hopefully will.