To make 16 year old move out?

[AnAppleADay5]

After punching younger sibling (10).

Thanks.

Will reply properly when done at work. But wanted this on so replies when done.

I said the kids should be separated'but just in a calm.and reasonable way if possible, so as not to alienate her daughter and make her even more angry than she is already.

If she's able to separate them and keep them both safe then obviously that'd be ideal. But if she can't (and it sounds like she can't because this isn't the first time) she should absolutely remove the 16 year old to safeguard the younger one. It's no about anger or punishment. It's about keeping the 10 year old safe.

I also, while in absolutely no way justifying the violence from the elder sibling, have concerns about what the 10 yo is doing to his sister.

To clarify, nothing excuses violence.

However, verbal bullying and nastiness is damaging in its own way, and should be dealt with.

My brother tormented me for years and years, yet the only time anyone gave a shit was when I shouted at him. Nobody saw what got me to that point, because he was a fly wee shite.

Once again, nothing justifies the violence, at all.

But I’d be curious to know why the 16 yo is so angry.

“I’ve walked in on him with his face blue from her chocking him”

I’d kick her out. Enough of this ‘a child is a child’ bullshit from other posters. 16 is old enough to know better- heck 16 year olds were given the vote for the Scottish independence referendum! The 10 year old is the vulnerable child in this situation. I know many older teenage siblings (my older sister included) who would never dream of attacking their younger siblings- no mater how taunted they were. It’s not normal. The poor boy. Also, the last thing you want is for him to start violently retaliating, in a few years you could be worrying for her safety- get them apart now!

Also, Mumsnet, I wonder how different your reposes would be had it been a 16 year old boy attacking his 10 year old sister...

As soon as I'm home I promise I'll write a full post. Didn't expect so many replies.

I think it's a vicious cycle. The brother (being a little shit like 10 year old's can be) says something horrible, the sister gets angry and responds with violence, the violence angers the brother and being physically weaker, he resorts to more verbal attacks in response. The sister responds to this with more violence and so on and so forth. Also, being physically attacked on several occasions has probably caused huge resentment on his part towards his sister so he lashes out verbally.

That's not to say the OP shouldn't make it clear that both verbal and physical abuse is unacceptable. The physical abuse is just more urgent in my eyes because of the level of violence and the fact that the 10 year old is a lot more vulnerable and unable to defend himself.

Also, Mumsnet, I wonder how different your reposes would be had it been a 16 year old boy attacking his 10 year old sister...

I can’t speak for everyone else, but mine would have been the same.

Agree with @YeTalkShiteHen

My post still applies regardless of their sex.

Cannot believe the amount of victim blaming going on against a 10 year old child who was attacked so badly he needed medical treatment. Maybe the aggressor should take some fucking responsibility here?

Sorry but if she's resorting to that level of violence against someone smaller and weaker at home I wouldn't be surprised if she was being violent outside the home too. Sounds like a time bomb.

People aren't victim blaming. You can't use the reason that the 10 year ago is smaller/weaker to allow him to get away with things. The older child with be resentful that the parent thinks that the sun shines out of his arse and he will grow up thinking that he can get away with anything and can say anything to anyone.

They are both at fault and both need to have their issues sorted out.

Well this thread is a masterclass in dripfeeding if nothing if nothing else

OP, your DS is being a little shit and needling and taunting his sister. She could respond in kind but let’s face it, to most NT 10 year old boys insults from an older sister are water off a duck’s back, in fact in my experience they are happy to be getting a response and up the ante even more. So your DS keeps on and keeps on, without any intervention from you, until eventually your DD loses her shit and goes for him.

Surely you can see that the solution to this is not to chuck her out?

This just such a toxic situation.
The 10 year old is being quite nasty to the 16 yr old, repeatedly taunting a hormonal teenager about their weight is nasty and bullying. It doesn't excuse the violence at all but he shouldn't get away with that behaviour, it's different to rape apology because he's actually actively doing something negative to her, time and time again. Maybe your DD feels there's no way to stop it? She sounds very angry.

I don't really understand why your post OP was about the punch when you've walked in on her choking him till he's blue? That's a he'll of a lot more serious, that's not normal at all?

My younger brother used to do this sort of thing to me because he knew I would react. He would go on and on and on at me, it was relentless, our age gap was smaller so slightly different but my parents never once told him to stop it "he's just teasing you", there was literally no way to stop him doing it so I would often punch things or hit him (this is when I was a child) because it just became overwhelming and there was no way to escape. Then either I would get told off for reacting or if I reacted with words told off for upsetting him, even though he upset me in the first place. It was a really horrible situation to be in because I couldn't escape and no one ever stood up for me. Then when it happened again I felt resentment towards him and my parents etc. So it was like this big spiral. As a teen although I never punched him I would end up basically screaming at him to stop, and then id get told off for being nasty.

I'm not excusing the DDs violence but I am wondering if its a similar situation to mine, where she feels she can't escape and feels resentment towards you and the 10 yr old, to me it seems the 10 year old is very much the baby. What are you doing to stop the 10 year old, why is he being allowed to be repeatedly nasty to her? It's a very hard situation because you do have to protect the child but at the same time DD needs help too. Is she being bullied or anything?

The thing I'm thinking is if you kick her out she will feel more of those feelings of resentment towards you and her brother, and it will get worse. However you have to protect him and some space might be good.

The 10 year old's behaviour would need dealing with, even if his big sister wasn't violent.

The thing is if you don't stop the 10 yr old and she can't stop the 10 year old how does she stop him being nasty to her? How does she get it to stop. I imagine being told you're fat repeatedly is pretty upsetting to a 16 yr old girl. She needs to know that she you will stop it. You need to almost be on her side before it gets to the point where she's violent and you can't be anymore.

It's not victim blaming to the 10 year old, but OP has 2 children and in order to protect them both she needs to look at why the DD is being violent. 16 yr olds aren't often violent to their siblings for no reason, it's fairly extreme to strangle your brother and therefore punishing her won't get her to stop. You need to tackle the root cause of the violence, which isn't necessarily the 10 year olds behaviour as such but potentially .ore how the OP deals with it, potentially OPs relationship with both children in general and how this could make the DD feel.

Put it another way, if they were the same age and someone at school was bullying your child by calling them fat over and over again, how would you feel if they punched the bully? It's obviously wrong to punch someone but you might understand why they had done it. And you would absolutely look to stop the bullying.

Does DD have a place she can go to calm down and get away from DS?

16 year olds were given the vote for the Scottish independence referendum! OMG ! I have huge huge respect for teenagers today but my own son is 16. Way to young to vote IMO..he's still learning and understanding so much about the world and the impact our votes have. and he's fairly mature for his age. Sorry to hijack thread.

I do everything I can for both of my children and absolutely do not prefer my son or think he should get away with it because "boys will be boys" (yuck).

Yep my son can wind her up, not sure why you assume I do nothing about it. He has had a lot of punishments, getting worse the more he does it. After their altercation and him calling her fat, he's currently on no iPad for 7 days, no Netflix, games, etc. and has a book he can read in free time, is he moaning? Yep, but I don't excuse his kind of behaviour in any way.

However, his response is " I called her fat because I don't like her and nothing happened the last time she hurt me " and he ALWAYS says that. I tell him to stop moaning but I do die a little inside because he's right, I've done nothing that stops her from hitting him.

I've absolutely bullocked her. She has a lot of discipline but couldn't give one shiny shit and will just disappear until the police find her. She is my absolute world, that girl really is and I know his comments upset her which is why I ALWAYS jump in when I hear it and I always tell her to come and tell me if I don't, but I can't because she hits him before I can.

The reason I mentioned the punching being worse is because he had a suspected fractured eye socket. Although the chocking was horrific, this seemed more violent.

I do my best to keep them apart. I'm not done at work by the time they would both be home together so DS has to stay at after school club and he always cries and tells me I'm punishing him and says "I'll tell school and they can finally take me away".

I feel really shit. I'm doing my absolute best for my kids and just posted for a bit of help (I know I am drop feeding but I was at work and didn't realise the response. I have only ever posted on the education board and that was ages ago and only got about 10 replies).

DD is at college and seems to do ok there. I have already had a call home for her bad attitude.

I'm a shit mum I get it. But all I know is my son is only 10 and is already very damaged.

Regarding the hospital visit, DS was asked what happened and I breathed in waiting for it and he lied. I didn't correct him which I know is awful but I was trying to protect my daughter. I need to tell someone as this can't go on. I asked him why and he said because I don't want her to be in trouble.

I'm at such a loss. I really am. Yes he's annoying and yes he can make her feel self conscious and I always address that, I really do and when I say this to DD she agrees I do and always says " I know but I hate the little shit ". I'm at such a loss.

I'm letting my son be abused, aren't I? That's the only reason I posted this. I feel better that so many do see DD as not just a monster as I thought so many more would tell me how I'm killing my son etc etc

But I don't know how to protect them both anymore.

Father isn't in the picture, not because of violence or anything. He just hasn't been since my boy was very young.

OP its ok not to know how to deal with it - but you need to seek professional advice

I don’t think you’re a shit Mum. I think you need support, you all do.

This has become your normal and it’s not healthy for any of you.

See if you can get your DD referred by the GP to help with her anger, she and your DS would probably benefit from counselling and you need and deserve support too.

What do I do if she refuses to go? Because she will. I've suggested it before. I spoke to her school a lot because I was called in a lot for her attitude and they tried to talk to DD but whenever she got a note through she would refuse to comply to see the teacher and as she was agreeing to be in lesson at that point, they didn't do much as it was her GCSE year and thought that was better than pulling her out.

She is now at college and honestly they don't seem to want that much parent input. DD calls on if she's sick for example and not the parent.

It seems like punishment isn't working. Does rewarding positive behaviour work with your DS? Once you have removed everything, he has no incentive to behave as there is nothing else to loose.

My DH used to annoy his sister until she fought back as a child purely because he was bored. Could it be that your DS is bored so does this?

My son doesn't feel he can come to me anymore and it makes me really sad. He used to always come and tell me things and now he doesn't want to say anything to me at all.

Me and my daughter are actually closer than me and my son.

How often do these situations crop up ? I think actually the 10 year old could be in danger and you need to get some support in place soon. I don't know where to start, could you speak to head of school or college for advice tomorrow ? Very worrying that he felt he had to lie about what happened to his eye. And he turned blue through being choked! This needs to end now !

OP a lot of people on this board make assumptions based on nothing and don’t realise not everyone can stay glued to their screen. So I would take some of the posts with a pinch of salt.

I felt really sad reading this:

I'll tell school and they can finally take me away".

It sounds like you have tried a lot, and your boy does get punished for his words. But at 16 there’s only so much punishment you can try, especially when the 16yr old doesn’t give a shit and will just go off.

You obviously can’t be there 24/7. At this stage I would have a long discussion with your DD, and tell her that today was the last straw. She must under no circs be violent again.

You have been clear to her, your son and here that you deal with your sons words appropriately. But there’s no point anymore, it reads to me like he’s stopped caring about punishments when she is ‘allowed’ to lash out how she wants. It sounds like he wants attention.

I wouldn’t blame you for seeking help from relatives, to have her stay for a while. She might be pissed off, but honestly if I was in her position, yes at 16 I may have felt ousted but at my age now I’d have understood if I was so violent.

Do you know if she’s violent towards friends or was she in school?

Some posters on here will say they would say the same for both genders, but we’ve had similar posts before about male teens being violent and not many would suggest the victim needs dealing more than the violent teen.