To make 16 year old move out?

[AnAppleADay5]

After punching younger sibling (10).

Thanks.

Will reply properly when done at work. But wanted this on so replies when done.

I think it would be very hard to salvage any sort of relationship with your daughter if you ask her to leave.
The focus needs to be why she has reacted so extremely and how you can support her to manage her behaviour. Likewise, your son needs to acknowledge that he shouldn’t speak to his sister in such a way.

It sounds as though there are other causes of stress in the household - have there been any changes recently? New school, moved house, divorce etc

The amount of people excusing this behaviour and blaming the boy is unbelievable. In a real world you don't get to beat people up for pissing you off.
16 year old is nearly an adult. She should be able to walk away if a 10 year old is annoying her, not choke him till he gets blue!!!!

So this punching incident comes after another incident in which you saw her choking him until he was blue?

Does your DD feel able to talk to you? Is she scared to because you disregard her feelings or don't take her seriously?

It does sound like she would benefit from some councilling and maybe you from finding other ways to parent the younger child. Different children need different ways of parenting as they don't all behave or think in the same way.

She might not be able to walk away - my sibling used to follow me all round the house and my parents ignored it.
Yes, her anger is extreme and should be punished but there is a reason for it and if that reason isn’t dealt with then nothing will be resolved.

I'm just scared that one day she will kill him

That's a bit of a leap. You said this is the first time she'd hit him. How has she been since? Is she remorseful?

Clearly your punishments to your son aren't working if he's constantly needling her. She's at an age where these things matter & if he does this regularly this might have been the straw that broke the camel's back.

Does she see that her actions were out of order? I think that's really important. By the same token does he also see he needs to stop with the horrible comments?

Can you sit them both down and talk to them. It sounds like your 16 year old needs support to manage her anger and the 10 year old also needs support.
Perhaps your 16 year old will actually welcome staying with the family member for a short time to give her some space

No, you don’t chuck her out ffs! You step up and get parenting. Rules, consequences and get them working with you to build a bit more respect for each other.

OMG choking until he is blue in the face is attempted murder no doubt about it.

No wonder you are worried she might kill.

Call the police, press charges and don't allow her back until you've all had counselling.

Well the 10 year old is less responsible for his behaviour than the 16 year old .

OP can still get to the underlying cause with a bit of space between them without being under the constant worry that she will go even further next time if she's bloody choking him.

To allay further hysteria are you planning on permanently abandoning her to the elements OP or moving her to family and getting support?

Also what was her reaction to what she did? Remorseful and shocked at her lack of control or not?

At 16, she might want the space. Not saying kick her out, but maybe broach the subject of her staying with relatives (for a term maybe?)

The choking until blue is a concern.

WhiteCat its not excusing or blaming anyone to say "if you get hurt when you do this thing you know you shouldn't do, then stop doing it."

Teenage years are hard and emotions and hormones run high. Its not excusing anyone to acknowledge that the whole thing could have not happened had he not run his mouth off to his sister who he KNOWS has been physically violent with him in the past.

Stopping the provocation is the easiest and first step to take here, you stop it before it starts wherever possible. Then you deal with everything else.

So many issues to consider here.

My first thought is why is your 10 year old persisting in provoking such a response from your daughter??

That in itself could be very manipulative.

Do they have different fathers?

Are you on your own at home or is there another parent helping?

The straggling incident sounds very serious but I'm afraid this isn't one sided. She needs to learn anger management and have a safe place to go to let off steam and he needs to learn and be severely punished for his hurtful mouth.

16 is too young to be chucked out of home, she needs your support now more than ever.

OP, why post if you’re not going to give the full backstory? Are you now saying that there has also been an occasion when you walked into a room and found DD strangling DS until he was “blue in the face?” Surely that’s more serious than a punch?

No you can’t theow a 16 year-old out - obviously . Where on earth would she go?

Time out with a relative might be an idea if they are willing to do this?

I presume your DD has seen a psychologist in the past? You must have some idea where the violent outbursts come from? What is going on and where is her dad? Do you have any support?

I understand you must be totally worn down by all this, but throwing her out will only create bigger problems in time to come. Has she even left school? What are her plans re- further study or employment?

StormTreader you are putting responsibility for this girls lack of self control on a 10 year old boy. You are blaming the victim. Excatly the same logic that blames rape victims for being raped as if they were modest, covered up and not out at midnight the assult wouldn't have happened...they provoked therefore it's their fault.

The reality is that no matter how annoying the child was getting beaten up/choked is NEVER justifed. This girl is doing it to him because he is weaker and smaller than her. If it was somebody her own size she wouldn't be trying to beat them up and choke them no matter what they were saying to her. She is a bully.

I feel very very sorry for the boy.

So she's had anger problems for a long while leading up to this punch.
What help have you sought? Do you have a social worker?
Why is she so angry? Have you explored the possibility that she's been groomed, or is being abused by a relative? Is she coping with school? Bullied? Does she have a poor relationship with you and her little brother constantly reminds her of this?
My eldest was moved by social services into a hostel to protect my daughter from his angry outbursts. He wasn't physical but the volume and level of rage meant for a horrible environment for all of us. ** "Luckily" for us, he was smoking a good deal of cannabis and SS found him a place in this hostel that helped young people with drug problems. I had to write a letter telling them we were estranged and that he would never be welcome home. It was heartbreaking. He'd already spent a year living with a friend and his Mum and a year living with a girlfriend.
It has taken us years to repair our relationship and the guilt will never leave me. I know his anger was because he felt different being from a previous relationship and I just kept saying "yes but he's the only Dad you've ever known and he loves you" I didn't acknowledge the pain he was feeling because I didn't want the guilt of knowing I had him on my own and with a man I knew wouldn't stick around.

Please consider that there is something causing this, you may even know partly what that is and yet not want to confront it.
Social services can actually be really bloody good with teenagers, finding mentors, activities they can do to boost self esteem and give them time away from you and her brother. Also speak to the GP about anger issues, look and see if it is PMT related anger as that can be genuinely impossible for some women to control without medication.

If you've done all this and nothing has helped then yes, maybe a break of a month at Grans or Aunties is a good idea, but for Gods sake don't refer to it as "throwing her out"

So, exactly where is the line he can go up to then? Is there a list of insults and provocations that she must endure? How many per day?
The tone I get from the OP is that there is a somewhat "boys will be boys" attitude to what hes doing, and I'm baffled that he would persist in needling her with so many reasons not to.
She is only 16 - there are 2 children involved here, and the OP is talking about turfing one out of her home. That's serious enough to try and get a bigger picture if there is one.

Of course, I could just yell "the poor little moppet, hes exactly like a rape victim!" if you think that would help?

Yes. YABU.

They are both in the wrong here but her actions are actually dangerous and need to be addressed immediately - even if her anger is not directed at her brother it clearly is a massive problem. I think you all need counselling. In the mean time if you're worried about their safety you need to ensure that they're never in the house alone together.

Major drip feed there about choking. OP I hope you get the help that you need but I don't think I can offer any more advice.

Your son is being a little shit and you have to crack down on his mocking behaviour.

This

I'm just scared that one day she will kill him. I've walked in in his face being blue from choaking.

Is unacceptable though and I would absolutely send her to a relatives house. She can access some counselling/therapy from there but my first prioty would be the safety physical safety of all my children. 16 is old enough to know better and she needs to learn that lashing out physically is unacceptable. You cant go around punching and strangling people for calling you fat.

I don't believe anyone is excusing the girls action, Its just in cases like this punishment isn't the way to go about fixing it. How exactly do you punish her, Smack her? Shut her in her room? No TV and phone? That doesnt address the issue
There has to be a lot more going on in her life that the OP probably isn't even aware of. And the only way you are going to be able to help her is to understand why shes so angry. There's been lots of good suggestions about sitting down and talking to her

The behaviour of both siblings is unacceptable, the 16 year old is old enough to know better and to walk away. But the 10 year old is also purposely winding her up, even through he knows that its likely to get him hurt, to the point his bed wetting. Conversations need to be have with both.

Obviously your daughter is completely in the wrong for punching and choking her brother.

But why on Earth is he being allowed to say horrible things to her? Whatever punishment you're doling out to him isn't working because he's still doing it, even after his sister retaliates physically.

Yanbu to have her go live with grandparents for a few days. Can't believe the amount of posters trying to justify her behaviour. She is 16 years old for God sakes, old enough to know that you can't throttle anyone, much less a smaller weaker person, till they are blue in the face or punch them so badly gp treatment is required. It's actually worrying the amount of people saying a 16 year old can't be expected not to retaliate violently but a 10 year old should not to tease his sister.