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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to say I'm a menstruating woman not a menstruating person?

217 replies

Speakupspeakout · 18/09/2018 09:31

Why the language change? I know it's all about being trans-inclusive. But is it really trans-exclusive if Lunette had said menstruating woman or girl?

AIBU to say I'm a menstruating woman not a menstruating person?
OP posts:
WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 18/09/2018 13:46

Why not just say 'woman'?

^^This, completely (except 'female' would probably be better, as the menarche almost always occurs before reaching adulthood).

I imagine the advertisers' planning meeting went something like this:

"Let's say 'the average woman' uses this many products...."

"But what about transmen? We don't want to offend them."

"But a transman is a biological female - genetically a woman - so they'll know that this obviously includes them - at least until or unless they commence radical hormone treatment and/or have a hysterectomy in their quest to identify as men, which they have every right to do. They'll have no reason to be offended or complain for the sake of it."

"Ah, yes, but we'd better not risk any bad press. Well, then, to make sure that we don't offend any transmen, we'll add 'menstruating' - 'the average MENSTRUATING woman' - just to underline beyond any doubt that menstruating is the whole purpose of what we're discussing here: if you menstruate, this advert might be of interest to you."

"Ah, but what about transwomen?"

"Well, that one's easy! A transwoman is a biological male, so whatever they do or don't seek to alter, they will never menstruate. They will obviously know that this advert isn't aimed at or relevant to them. They'll just see it's about periods, ignore it and move right on to the next advert or article. Nothing to interest them, much less offend them."

"But some of them CAN be very vocal and seek to complain about perceived problems, where none actually exist. Even though what we're saying has no relevance to them, they might still decide that everything should primarily be about them and complain bitterly about us. They could throw accusations like 'transphobic' and 'discrimination' at us. Transwomen activists can be very vocal and seek to destroy anybody who disagrees with them."

"Ooh, OK, then. Well, we'll change it from 'menstruating woman' to just 'person', then. 'The average person uses this many period-related products in their life'. All good."

"But that isn't true. 'Person' includes males. Males obviously don't use any of these products at all - ever. And 99.99% of males would accept this as common sense and would see it as absurd to quibble the fact or venture to offer an opinion as they know it's clearly nothing at all to do with them. They really couldn't care less."

"Hmm. Right, then. So we need to appeal to all people, but make sure they know we're talking about menstruating. Let's just go with 'Menstruating PEOPLE,' then."

"But that's absolutely crazy. Everybody knows that only biological females menstruate and that virtually all females will menstruate for many years of their lives. Menstruating = a female concern. Everybody knows that. We don't want to risk offending women by glibly homogenising a very significant part of their lives with men and making it look like it's somehow shameful or sexist to specifically refer to 'women' when addressing female-only concerns."

"Well, we WON'T offend them. Not all women, anyway - transwomen will be happy and agree with how we've carefully included everybody and made sure that they don't feel marginalised. Invariably, there will be some women who are offended, but it won't be all women - only maybe some of those ciswomen. At least transwomen won't feel excluded."

"But transwomen are biologically male. We're talking about menstruating, so, by nature, they - along with all males - are, by definition, excluded!"

"Excellent - I'm so glad we all agree. Inclusivity it is, then - we'll write 'menstruating people'. That way, absolutely nobody has cause to be offended and, if they are, well, they must have personal issues. That's their problem and not ours. Perfect: all sorted!"

jcyclops · 18/09/2018 13:47

It's just sloppy language.
"The average menstruating woman will produce 300 pounds of garbage..." - apparently offensive to some.
"The average menstruating person will produce 300 pounds of garbage..." - contrived gender neutrality - apparently offensive to some.
"On average, those who menstruate will produce 136kg of garbage.." - truly gender neutral, but probably offensive to metric martyrs - you can't please everyone.

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 18/09/2018 13:51

Incidentally, were people aware of the amazing fact that the average breathing person will take over 670 million breaths in their lifetime....?

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 18/09/2018 13:59

How are you defining women?

I'm not. We can all call ourselves what ever we want as far as I am concerned.
.
Do you employ the same laissez-faire attitude to other definitions?

If someone told you they were a vegan who ate meat would you totally accept that they were offering a correct understanding of the word vegan? Or if they tried to tell you your OH was really a velociraptor?

Because you see, for the rest of the world words have meanings. If you remove those meanings communication becomes impossible or at least very difficult. Woman has a very specific meaning. Adult human female.

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 18/09/2018 13:59

"On average, those who menstruate".... - truly gender neutral

Indeed it is (and I do like your last point Grin), but it sounds very awkward and contrived - and it does carry with it the suggestion of 'othering' these people who menstruate and setting them apart from the majority of 'normal' people.

Nobody would ever dream of writing "the average person who plays in play parks will play in a play park for xx hours a week" rather than just 'child' or 'child aged xx-xx'. Very offensive to suggest that I and my middle-aged contemporaries somehow might not love climbing frames, see-saws and roundabouts!!

aphextwin · 18/09/2018 14:29

Biology

A cat cannot become a dog.

A lizard cannot become a gerbil.

A man cannot become a woman, tree, octopus or an armchair.

What we are is written into our dna and nature will not be dismissed because it’s vastly more powerful than naval gazing humans.

The feelz are irrelevant I’m afraid.

Jog22 · 18/09/2018 14:36

Ha ha - read what they say about feminity, language and gender.

"So, it’s pretty clear that the use of female-centric words needs to cease in the menstruation industry."

uk.lunette.com/blogs/news/gender-and-period-care-products

SmellyHead · 18/09/2018 14:37

YANBU at all.

Ennirem · 18/09/2018 14:40

The category 'woman' is included within the category 'person'. The reverse is not true. HTH.

Thatstheendofmytether · 18/09/2018 14:54

Some TW boast on public websites about fishing strangers' used sanitary towels and tampons out of public bins and using/inserting them and then revelling in the squishiness and wetness.

Please tell me this is not true?

PositivelyPERF · 18/09/2018 14:54

Some men menstruate If a man is bleeding, I would suggest that they should go to the doctor, as they could have a very serious illness or infection.

If a woman/female doesn’t have periods, she has either went through the menopause or has an underlying condition.

Women menstruate. Men don’t.

Women who believe themselves to be, or pretend to be men, can still menstruate.

Men who believe themselves to be, or pretend to be women, can never menstruate.

That’s it. That’s all there is to it. No amount of fantasising is going to change reality.

AsAProfessionalFekko · 18/09/2018 14:57

I saw a film when a sanitary towel was used as a dressing for a gunshot wound. Maybe that's what they mean. All kinds of bleeding catered for.

Knicknackpaddyflak · 18/09/2018 15:02

That's unfortunately it's a known fetish with online forums. I've encountered screenshots and one particularly grim account of an individual retrieving from the bin and inserting a used tampon in himself and walking around with it.

lexi727 · 18/09/2018 15:03

You're fine to call yourself a menstruating woman, but it doesn't affect your life if other people say 'menstruating person'

FinnegansWhiskers · 18/09/2018 15:04

Women menstruate. Men don’t

In a nutshell....
Unless the woman has had a hysterectomy or has gone through the menopause...

Men, however, have never before, not now, and never will menstruate. Their biological make up doesn't allow for menstruation.

Lucky men!

Knicknackpaddyflak · 18/09/2018 15:06

Yes, actually it does. See above.

There is a difference between choosing to say 'I prefer to call myself a menstruating person' and 'EVERYONE must stop saying menstruating women because it's exclusionary and bigoted and biologically essentialist yada yada yada'.

Women menstruate. Get over it.

AsAProfessionalFekko · 18/09/2018 15:08

But why change it to accommodate a vocal and hostile minority? It's not women who don't have periods for whatever reason who are 'triggered' by the biology of the vast majority of females on the planet.

It's the bending over backwards to appease a tiny group of men who can't accept that biologically they aren't female, and a tinier group of women who in their head may be male but bugger me, biology rides again!

Don't get me started on 'pregnant persons'.

Flowerfae · 18/09/2018 15:12

Their reply ' Not all who menstruate are women' I think they need a biology lesson.

AsAProfessionalFekko · 18/09/2018 15:16

I'd ask a) how exact does that work and b) how many 'persons' is this?

CurbsideProphet · 18/09/2018 15:21

When Margaret Atwood wrote The Handmaid's Tale in the 80s she said that the most dangerous thing women can do is "sleepwalk" into patriarchal oppression. Looks like we're getting there now.

joangray38 · 18/09/2018 15:21

Last time I went in Boots I noticed the feminine hygiene sign had been taken down as all the sanitary products were tucked away between the tights and incontinence products. Let's face it if you are looking for sanitary products there is a good chance you need them now and I would prefer not to play hide and seek just to pander to a few.

BiologyMatters · 18/09/2018 15:22

Periods are not inherently feminine. Periods are a biological phenomenon that impacts the lives of people who are born with a uterus.

Yeah. In other words, females. Whatever fucking idiot wrote that pile of nonsense needs their brain looking at.

Havaina · 18/09/2018 15:26

It appears some men want all the kudos of having a uterus without the resultant blood, pain and mess.

Helmetbymidnight · 18/09/2018 15:35

Well it embeds the lies deeper.

Some people are unable to define what a woman is anymore. Confused If we aren’t a group how can we have a conversation about women’s issues, women’s rights, discrimination against women, sexual violence against women, women’s health, etc etc
it’s all ‘persons’ together (ie men.)

Sleepykate · 18/09/2018 16:02

YANBU. It's ridiculous. Can't believe it's finally got to the point that even using the word "woman" is offensive 🙄