When did we become ok with the burka?

[Banana8080]

In my childhood (80s90s) I remember being sad some Muslim women were pressured not to show their full faces in public ie become invisible. These days much more focus on a women right to choose aka wear the full vail, even those who are possible under pressure.

When/why did this change happen?

I am considering a boob job because after 3 years of breastfeeding mine get in the way when I turn over in bed.

Having a boob job can be because your boobs are too big and are putting a strain on your back.

I have never cared what men think of me.

If the women you know are not ashamed of their bodies. The only reason I can think they cover up is actually to appease a man.

I meant getting bigger boobs rather than removing breast tissue or having reconstructive surgery. To get bigger boobs is to feel more attractive. Some women may cover to feel less attractive. For me it amounts to the same thing. However there maybe many different reasons. For some women they will cover to appease the man the same as why some women have boob jobs. The difference is boobs jobs are now considered culturally normal in the uk.

Headstone I don't think burkas and boobs are a good comparison tbh. A good set of boobs make a women feel good, confident and feminine. I can only imagine what a burka does but I highly doubt it's any of those things and by design it's suppose to make a women appear like a shadow, to be unnoticed and hidden from the mans view!

I don’t know anyone who has had a boob job because a man said they should.

As you have said women wear the burka to appease a man

I think most women get boob jobs to feel good about themselves, it's a very old fashioned view to think women want to look nice to attract/please a man. I'm married and would love to have better boobs, not to attract another man or to please my husband. If he doesn't like my boobs tough shit really, because I'm not getting a boob job!

Women probably do wear a burka to appease a man/men. I’ve never seen them in this country though. I think there are probably many niquab wearing women who do so out of choice and it may bizarrely give them confidence. My SIL actually looks quite pretty in a niquab as she has stunning eyes.
I did go out with a niquab wearing friend once, I was wearing western clothes. She was flirted with in street while I was overlooked. Again she has beautiful eyes. She did wear it for her then husband though which I told her at the time I didn’t approve.
I think maybe we can agree altering your body or what you wear shouldn’t be done to appease men.
I’m sure there are many women who had boob jobs because someone said something unkind about their boobs at some point or society gave them the impression that small boobs are unattractive.
I think if you live in a western bubble and don’t meet or experience people from other cultures it easy to feel your own cultural norms are best.

Headstone I'm currently not living in a western bubble, I've lived in the Middle East and I'm currently living in Asia, I'm not sitting on my phone in my 2 bed semi in suburbia!
Love the comment about beautiful eyes!

I actually am friends with a few Muslim women. All divorced all only making a nod to their religion.

None wear any sort of covering.
Usually they are in jeans and t shirts or tight fitting skirts for the office.

I’ve never been bothered by anyone wearing any religious garment.

I was very bothered at the suggestion that a French policeman forcing a woman at gunpoint to remove a burkhini or leave the beach, was somehow a great step in freeing oppressed women.

The whole dressing up of this as being a problem to national security or to freedom of women is as laughable as it is transparent. It’s a convenient argument being used because of racism or islamaphobia.

What Moominfan said. Very little discussion about the thinking underlying why women need to wear it - to hide sinful selves? Why does anyone feel the need to cover their face/hair? If it were really simply a matter of personal preference surely women of other faiths/persuasions/non-faiths would also choose to wear it sometimes...

I've just watched a religious march and lots of little kids were there. The adult men and little boys in jeans and tshirts and the women and little girls (from about 7 or 8 years old) head to toe in black with hands and hands showing.

So the women wear an piece of clothing that dates back to yon time - but males can throw on a pair of levis and a tshirt? I don't understand how this can be squared.

'Hands and face' not 'hands and hands'. That would be silly...

I think many who are 'against; the hijab or niqab make a lot of assumptions, and seldom have discussed it with actual Muslim women

Yes. I would agree with you.

As I've said - most of my family are Muslim and either currently live or were brought up in a country where you don't have the choice (and human rights is pretty woeful). It is seen as a foreign cultural imposition.

@ asaproffesionalfelko it’s pretty sad people come to the UK for the freedom it offers and then the shackles follow them, forced marriage, fgm, having to cover yourself from head to toe to be modest, honour killings, all the shame is on the women, men get away scot free, the world is going backwards

I think it’s ok to have any opinion you want to regarding the burka, niqab et al

I personally think it all looks silly, objectifies woman and takes away any responsibility or self restraint from pervert men. Other people think it’s jolly great and that’s okay too 😊

I also think it’s a fashion statement in the U.K. one that will peak and then fade over time x

Please read up on the Talibans rule over Afghanistan.
All women were required to wear the Burkha. Women were forbidden to leave their homes without a male chaperone. Education for females was banned. Driving for women was banned. Breaking these rules resulted in violent punishment. Why would any woman want to wear an item of clothing that symbolises such abhorrent treatment of women?
This has absolutely nothing to do with religion or wanting to show the world how serious a Muslim you are. This is about a huge number of women that love being treated like nothing and nobody by men.
They absolutely believe men are superior and should be obeyed.
I'm not talking about the women who are forced to wear it but the ones who choose it as a lifestyle choice.

I am Muslim btw

I meant a minority of women not a huge amount.

Spot on Turk, that is precisely my thinking.

Turk you mentioned the Taliban. This is what happened in Iran in 1979. Everything changed virtually overnight and the rest of the ME followed.

So true Turk and then you have women on here saying they will be proud if their daughters wear it 😞 so sad, we are going backwards