When did we become ok with the burka?

[Banana8080]

In my childhood (80s90s) I remember being sad some Muslim women were pressured not to show their full faces in public ie become invisible. These days much more focus on a women right to choose aka wear the full vail, even those who are possible under pressure.

When/why did this change happen?

it's a sign of a strong independent and beautiful courageous woman

how on earth can a piece of clothing denote all of that?

Well it takes sheer guts to wear a burqa in the UK in the current political climate so it's not wrong to admire the wearer's strength.

Do you know how much courage and independence it takes to walk the opposite way to the crowd just because you feel it's the rite thing to do when so many will shoot you down and criticise you for doing it

That's strong courageous and independent in my books

@Havaina exactly this

Most people I know are not ok with the Burka, it is a disgusting item and is disrespectful to our country and people.

@ blurredspeech I agree. I feel sorry for these women 😞

@enthusiasmisdisturbed
You are mistaken.
I know many teachers that wear niqaab.
They take it off when they teach. That is the choice. In fact teaching is the most common profession from those I know that wear niqaab.

I also know a few male converts. Some are married to female converts. Others to those from Muslim families.

@blurredspeech

More assumptions. Do you think those tghat wear niqaab automatically don't like make up or designer clothes, or gold jewellery or naice handbags and luxurious houses? 😂😂

@pallisers how can an item of clothing denote the opposite?
I to would be happy and proud if my daughter chose to wear niqaab.

@vicky1990
Our country and our people? Really!?

nailak - do you wear the niqab? If so, I hope you don't mind me asking but what are your opinions of gay people, Jews, Hindus, ex-Muslims? Do you respect them and their beliefs? Do you treat them politely and kindly in any social interactions? Do you believe in their right to live their lives the way they choose, even if it is at odd with your beliefs? Thank you.

Our country our people what a joke

My daughters the blondest whitest blue eyed child ever

And I'm also English and love all the burka stands for

Infact my people my country

I said they can’t teach

Taking it off while they are teaching well what is the point wearing it in the first place

I know lots of Muslim men that have married non Muslims and those who didn’t have a faith including my ex)

Lots of Muslims don’t follow their religion in the way it has been dictated to them but ask if they are Muslim and they will absolutely believe they are - just lapsed

Only Muslim women I have known to marry non Muslim men come from liberal open minded families but secretly I suspect they are hoping he shall convert

@blurredspeech Muslims are taught we have free will do we can do with that what we choose

We're taught there's no compulsion in religion also

And to respect

@pallisers how can an item of clothing denote the opposite?

it can't. Do you go around judging people by what they wear with certain classes of clothing denoting courage and beauty and independence and others showing the opposite? That is very odd to me.

I don't judge individual women who wear the burka or niqab - don't think they are any better or any worse that anyone else. I'll wait to get to know them to make up my mind on their courage etc. (although in fairness I probably would think that a woman who refused to wear the burka in Saudi Arabia was showing a degree of personal and political courage).

As a concept, I think the burka and the need to cover women is a tool of the patriarchy to keep women in their place but I don't think it should be banned and I don't judge individual women for it - you have to see it in the context of their societies/lives/religion.

Helpimfalling - Great! I am sure in that case you fully support any Muslim female who wants to leave the religion because there is no compulsion to stay in it if they choose to become an atheist and I'm sure you'd wholeheartedly support a Muslim who comes out as gay and wants to bring their partner to meet the folks! I think that's great that you are openminded and respectful of other ways of living.

No compulsion but there is the death penalty in some counties for those who abandon the faith. Men make rules.

@blurredspeech
I have family members me and my children are close to, visit weekly and love that are Hindu, Catholic, atheist etc.

Yes I treat them politely in social interactions I believe in treating everyone with respect and their private life is really none of my business.
Yes I believe in their right to do whatever the fuck they like as long as it is not hurting other people.

@enthusiasmisdisturbed the point is it is their choice what parts of their body thet uncover and when. Because you don't see the point, doesn't mean it's pointless to them.

Who people marry is up to them. It doesn't effect my life. I know 1 Muslim man who married a non Muslim and the family is split on how they feel about it, but they supported him, shes welcome at their houses etc.
I know ex Sikhs and ex Hindus who's families have disowned them and ignore them if they see them in the street. One woman I know her mother died this week. On the day of her death she spoke to her on the phone for the first time in 30 years. Her family didn't let her go and visit. She used to see her family while out shopping and they act Like They didn't know her. Her family are Hindu.
I know another Sikh man who told me he would never forgive his sister for leaving Sikhism and marrying a non Sikh and she was dead to him and his family. I know a ex Catholic woman who's family abuses her and calls her a traitor and fight with her every time she tries to visit or call.

Apostates in Britain are ostracised. Free choice, my arse

@blurredspeech I feel your level of sarcasm means your judging me and you don't know me which is strange

Everyone has there own free will I wouldn't need to agree with them or share there opinion but I do agree it's there Choice to do what they want with there life if there happy I'm happy exactly that

@blurredspeech that's completely up to there folks and there opinions some maybe okay with that some may not

Same with my atheist/Christian/Jew/Muslim friend round the corner different opinions

Some Christians would be okay with there son bringing his boyfriend home some won't same with Muslims

Different strokes different folks literally

Taking it off while they are teaching hmm well what is the point wearing it in the first place

I expect it’s removed in appropriate circumstances.

Maybe in the eyes of the religion, not legally

Yes but I think you’d find it’s not the legalities that matter to the majority.

Do you know how much courage and independence it takes to walk the opposite way to the crowd just because you feel it's the rite thing to do when so many will shoot you down and criticise you for doing it. That's strong courageous and independent in my books

I think it is strong and courageous for someone to leave their religion when they desperately want to yet are threatened with total rejection by their family and community and possibly death. Nobody should be forced to stay in any religion against their will.

Appropriate circumstances

There are no inappropriate circumstances in this country where a women should hide her whole body and face with just her eyes showing

Thankfully they won’t be punished for doing so

I struggle to believe that so many feminists support this but I feel it’s far more in line with appearing to be liberal and fearing being called racist than actually thinking it’s for the good of females

I am nearly 60 and can remember a time when no muslin woman ever work a veil ( well only if they were wearing a sari and would cover their hair if they went out in it) let along a burka in this country. Then came the fall of the shah in Iran (70s) and the religious leaders dictated that all women should be covered. It was the first time I had ever seen Burkas even on tv.

I think this trend started in the Middle East which is not where most of the Muslims in this country culturally come from.