To think women’s rights are actually bad for women

[crazydoglady6867]

I am sure I will get shot down for this but here goes:

I really think that women wanting and largely getting EQUALITY is the best thing that is happening in modern times. What I have an issue with is women wanting to be better than men, wanting more rights and with girls/women only groups sports events etc we are actually just segregating ourselves and making men feel ostracised in some situations which is making them feel they need to gain back this “power” they feel they should have over women.
I am in a bike group who have a ladies section and they are just recently going a bit OTT over the women riders and making them more inclusive than the men really, they have special ride outs for them but men are not allowed to have a male only one. Etc etc...

You can see where I am going with this, and I am happy to change my mind in how I feel if posters come up with a reasonable debate into why I am wrong here.

I want to be thought of as equal to my male counterparts I don’t feel I need to have special running races they can’t run in or special groups my son can’t join or special days to celebrate my gender.

I remember a sketch in the 70’s on the Two Ronnies with Diana Dors in it called “the worm has turned” and thinking yeah as if that will ever happen, well people I can honestly say I am getting a bit worried for our men.

I know MN has a good proportion of man haters but you can’t all be like that, am I really the only one who feels like this.

A final note to the "feminists" that have posted here.

Please realise that you don't have the monopoly on what it is to be a woman.

That your experience is just that - your experience not the experience of every woman.

And you have no right to try and speak for every woman nor to deny another woman's experience just because it doesn't match with your view of the world or of your idea on what a woman thinks like or sounds like.

That is not feminism.

Have been lurking and reading this thread with interest and only felt compelled to comment at this stage because I’m staggered by the nasty, bullying, dismissive comments and name calling that have been posted on here.

It really does you no favours at all if that’s all there is to offer.

Crazydoglady and Arthuritis in particular have, whether you agree with them or not, repeated themselves clearly, consistently and politely over and over for clarity yet 95% of what is posted in response is sarcasm, silliness and frankly childish responses. The level which some posters have sunk to is really quite depressing and, for many, will have the totally opposite effect that you are presumably aiming for.

This x100!

I've been lurking here for several years now and don't bother posting anymore as my opinion is always dismissed being a man.

When I created my first account almost two years ago, I was hesitant due to fears that posters wouldn't be welcoming.

One day I ended up posting on a thread and (politely) challenging the 'it's so hard for woman to walk around for fear of male violence' argument. I just pointed out that men are actually over 3x more likely to attacked by a stranger. First I was called a handmaiden, and then when I said I was male I was called a misogynist, fuckwit and an MRA (just like Arthur is being).

I was then unable to log in and received an email from mumsnet saying "we've had a few reports about your post and as a new account we think you may not be posting in good faith. However, if this isn't the case, please get in touch and we can discuss." I was surprised as I'd been very civil in my posting and some of the replies had been very aggressive - even personal attacks on my username which was my son's middle name (admittedly bit of an unusual name with me being half Zimbabwean).

I emailed straight back but never got a reply and haven't posted again until creating this account just now.

I see that people are still using the rebuttal of "oh but it's other men committing the violence" as if thanks better for poor bloke getting beaten to a pulp (who probably wishes he were getting slapped by a 9 stone female instead!).

I also don't understand the logic of people saying "well, if men don't like it they should sort it out then." What's the weedy bespectacled guy who just got battered by a chav going to do? Become a vigilante like in the film Kickass?

Males suffer the most violence by far and it's committed by a small and out of control contingent of men who the rest of us generally avoid out of fear (not least because its much more socially acceptable for said thug to attack a man - in all the social experiments people rarely help the male victim, and they even laugh if he's being attacked by a female.

😴

😴

I rest my case.

Very torn here but I do have to say for the people who say why wouldn't there be able to be a men only bike ride-are you joking? I was so happy when they showed up the last male only golf club in Ireland, I was disgusted that IT existed, but now I've seen women only golf hours and mornings advertised-God help the man who argues about that!!! Also there is a point with STEM, when numbers are low it's assumed women are being forced out but as someone who studied science in college there are times where women just aren't suited to it but feel they will be respected more in something that doesn't fit. I think we have moved on in certain parts of the world with a lot to tweak though, and I don't think MN is man hating

Eagleitarian Men have the power to sort it out what they seem to lack is the will to do so.

Authuritis Do you have a problem with celebrating Black History month? ie would you say that it’s discriminatory as we don’t celebrate White History month?
Do you think Gay Pride is discriminatory because we don’t celebrate Straight Pride?
Do you think that we shouldn’t have the Paralympics because non disabled people can’t compete in them? If not, why not?
My local swimming pool has a weekly session for over 60’s only. This was requested because some older people found it intimidating attending general swim sessions because they felt self conscious about their bodies and/or found dealing with boisterous teenagers splashing and dive bombing made them feel anxious. Should they stop these sessions because they discriminate against people who aren’t over 60?
Our local cinema has one autism friendly screening each week. Should they be abolished because it’s not fair that people who don’t have autism can’t attend? If not, why not?
The toddler group that I used to attend had a weekly session for dads/men only. Did mums/women object to this? No, they positively encouraged it because they could see that, in this particularly environment, men were in a small minority and may feel intimidated attending a group where nearly everyone was female.
I have a 16 year old DD. I have become acutely aware that, when I am out with her, men are eyeing her up constantly, whistling at her and openly making comments about her legs or breasts. And that’s when she’s with me - I have no doubt that it’s 10 times worse when she is on her own or with her friends.
Your son experienced one incident when he felt embarrassed. For girls and women, this shit is relentless
I remember going on holidays to Turkey and Tunisia with my best friend when we were in our early 20’s and just walking down a street was an obstacle course of sexual suggestions and being groped. I have been in countless situations on crowded tubes of men trying to rub themselves against me or feel my breasts. Men do not experience this. I have been in a situation of being in a mini cab with a driver making grunting noises and rubbing his crotch and then taking a road which was in the opportunity direction to where I wanted to go. We stopped at traffic lights and I jumped out and was then left in a situation of being in an unfamiliar place in the dark and having to walk home terrified of hearing footsteps behind me. How many men have experienced that?
There are some black people who will have an easier life than some white people. Does that mean that racism or white privilege don’t exist?
I do not hate men. I have a father, a husband and 2 sons who I love dearly. I work in mental health and am well aware of the disproportionate male to female suicide rate. I believe that a large part of this is due to men being socialised into thinking that expressing their feelings or asking for help is a sign of weakness. I have an extremely sensitive 10 year old son who is already beginning to be bullied for crying and I can see him beginning to fall victim to the ‘boys don’t cry’ crap.
He is just as much a victim of toxic masculinity as my daughter is.

Well, undoubtedly yes they do.

But I think part of the issue with this analysis of 'men' as a class is that it assumes some unified force, when most guys are just trying to look after their immediate family and provide for them day to day - a big enough job in itself.

And even the increased violence males face is still only a passing concern to the average person who probably spends more time thinking about Love Island or Instagram posts in the average week. Two women a week and 84 men is sadly a drop in the ocean for our society and there is so much 'noise' to distract us nowdays.

Was replying to Red dog.

Sorry - distracted in rl. He changed to different dance genres where he was accepted by the girls. Because apparently, valley is for girls but tap, musical theatre and hip hop are for both sexes.

Eagleitarian You have admitted that men are overwhelming attacked by other men
Do you have to deal with constant remarks about your physical appearance, being whistled at and leched at, worry about getting in a taxi in case the driver is a rapist or being constantly told to ‘cheer up love?’
Thought not.

Eagleitarian you have admitted that men are overwhelming attacked by other men

I'm not sure I understand this statement?

As I said in my original post, people on here often seem to have this odd (in my eyes) view that male violence is somehow diminished by virtue of being committed by another male.

One of my biggest fears is getting a call to say that my son has been stabbed. If this ever happens I wont think "oh well, at least another boy stabbed him."

Of course, it takes the blame away from women when it's men committing these acts, but it certainly doesn't diminish the seriousness of the crimes, and people should care just as much about violence against males, which happens much more often - we usually only hear about the danger to women (so that many people mistakenly think it happens more frequently, like the male poster the other day saying men were "lucky" for not having to worry about this).

Equality dictates that society should take both equally seriously yet men often seem disposable.

Do you have to deal with constant remarks about your physical appearance

I'm a well built black man who enjoys working out. I'll let you guess how that effects the way react/stereotype to me.

And although I despise using the race card, will those of you posters who are caucasian take responsibilty for your racist brethren if I am to take responsibility for the violence of my fellow men.

@butterflysugarbaby
Go on carry on.

I am not a man. I am a woman.

I have been pregnant 3 times and given birth to 2 live babies - I've had pre eclampsia and a PPH.

My eldest child was in SCBU whilst I was in ICU having eclamptic fits.

But yep go for it.

I'm a man - because you say so.
Use he rather than she when you talk about me.

Whatever. You are just making yourself look stupid because you call yourself a feminist. No you're not.

You're just someone who enjoys belittling women who aren't exactly like you.

And that makes you worse than any man.

In fact, as a man am I myself also responsible for the behaviour of other men who are racist? 🤔

@butterflysugarbaby

And if you are being badly treated anywhere then I would suggest that is because of how you are, rather than because you are a woman.

If somebody calls me the n word, am I simultaneously the victim but also responsible for solving the problem as a fellow male?

Eagle Sorry but I just don’t believe that any man is subjected to the incessant unwanted chatting up, ‘funny’ remarks, whistling, groping and sexual suggestions that women and girls experience.
Some female friends and I were talking above this recently. I considermyself to have got off lightly compared to many women but, when I began to think about it, there are literally hundreds of occasions when I have received unwanted attention from men of a sexual nature. I seriously doubt that that is the case for most men.
You say that you’re well built. I have never ever commented on the physical appearance of a random male and nor have any of my friends.
I can totally believe that you have had been on the receiving end of racist comments but that isn’t what we’re talking about.

@Eagleitarian

Any right thinking women does not hold all men responsible for the crimes of the few.

As society we all have the responsibility for highlighting bad behaviour when we see it and if we feel safe to do so.

To suggest that men are the only ones responsible is just ridiculous.

Eagle I don’t hold me or other Caucasians responsible for what has happened historically to people of colour. However, I recognise that I cannot understand racism in the way that black people can as I will never experience it and that being born white grants me a certain amount of privilege exactly the same as being born male grants you privilege.

You say that you’re well built. I have never ever commented on the physical appearance of a random male and nor have any of my friends.

Then you've never been on a hen night or been into a local town on a Saturday night because your eyes would be well and truly opened as to the behaviour of women towards men.

I see it at work all the time. Girls flirt with the men all of the time. They touch them, comment on their appearance. And no these don't do the same because I think a lot of men understand that they will get into a lot of trouble if they do.

But there are double standards when it comes to women. A lot of their behaviour is over looked. And if men do ever say something it's treated as a joke.

Eagle I don’t hold me or other Caucasians responsible for what has happened historically to people of colour.
Why not?

Why if men as a class are responsible for the behaviour of all men why aren't all white people responsible for the behaviour of white people?

Why the difference?