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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Daughter given to family friend at school gate without permission

344 replies

Becklington · 14/09/2018 21:49

Hi
I found out that a new teacher in my daughter's first week at primary school, at school pick up time, gave her to a friend of ours. Our friend, who the teacher does not know at all, thought she was meant to pick her up. The school asks that any parent emails or tells them in person requests for a different person picking up. Clearly this had not happened. I am really upset as a stranger, to all intents and purposes, picked up.our daughter. Our friend said she had to be quite insisting to get her to come with her as my daughter is very shy but the teacher let her go. Clearly she came to no harm but I have lost all faith, trust and confidence. I am wondering if I should report this breach of basic safeguarding...any thoughts please?

OP posts:
HesterMacaulay · 15/09/2018 16:42

The DH and friend are jointly responsible for the teacher being put in the position described. But it is the teacher alone who is responsible for implementing the school's safeguarding policy. And she acted in a way that failed to safeguard the child.

Quartz2208 · 15/09/2018 16:43

The friend presumably though is a parent at the school (and even in the class) as otherwise how would she know the DH was late and think it was her that needed picking up - thats the bit that doesnt make sense.

It doesnt make the teacher right though as you shouldnt give a child to another parent without explicit instructions to do so

HesterMacaulay · 15/09/2018 16:43

^^ everything RainySeptember said

HesterMacaulay · 15/09/2018 16:47

All the ifs and buts about who the friend is or what the teacher thought are irrelevant. That's why policies are put in place. It reduces the 'grey' areas.

Elephantinacravat · 15/09/2018 17:53

I am a teacher who has left the profession at least temporarily because I could stand the bullshit no longer.

However, ensuring that the kids are dismissed safely and to the correct person isn't part of that 'bullshit'. The friend messed up getting the wrong day, the DH messed up by being late, but ultimately, if the teacher gave the child to the friend when she didn't know if the friend was a designated person for pick up, then they were totally in the wrong.

categed · 15/09/2018 22:20

School should simplify proceedures password unless main carer. No teacher can be expected to remember 3 or 4 faces for every child.
No password no child regardless. Puts the teacher in a strong position to say no, and pass up to the already rediculously busy school office.
Parents must change paaword if breached and accept no release without it.
Yes the teacher was wrong and safeguards in place failed. But with potentially 25(not sure of class sizes as i am in Scotland) kids anything less is potentially a disaster waiting to happen and places far too much of pressure on teachers to remember everyone's faces and to have a spare 1/2h daily to deal with late changes.

Stillnotready · 15/09/2018 22:34

My daughter was working as a supply teacher last year, mainly reception aged children, and she was continually amazed at how lax some schools were about safe pick up. At one school on the first and only day she worked there, she was expected to hand over the children, with no TA to support her identifying the actual parent/ nominated carer. She refused to release any children until senior management arrived, but they just thought she was being difficult!
Needless to say, she declined offers to work there again.

Holidayshopping · 16/09/2018 10:54

Most schools I’ve worked in don’t have a TA in the afternoons, so a supply would be expected to hand them over to their parents.

RainySeptember · 16/09/2018 11:27

Yes I'm not sure that many schools would have a spare person to deploy in order to help a supply teacher dismiss children.

It's really about trusting that the class teacher would have left instructions about any unusual arrangements, and trusting the children in that situation I think.

Iamagreyhoundhearmeroar · 16/09/2018 12:15

If it had been a genuine stranger (as in, a person the child didn’t actually know) surely to God the child would have spoken up?
The teacher very probably asked her to confirm the “stranger” was who she was claiming to be.

RayneDash · 16/09/2018 12:28

It IS a safeguarding issue. (I am Designated Safeguarding Officer.) Make a complaint using the schools complaints procedure and get it sorted from there.

It might have been ok for you but there may be an instance where another child isn't so lucky. It won't hurt the school tutor pool to receive a refresher in safeguarding training.

Tistheseason17 · 16/09/2018 13:06

OP - why isn't the friend on the list for pick ups already if she is supposed to be collecting your DD? Possible she thought she was already and your DD clearly knows her and told the teacher who she was.

Yes, YANBU to make a complaint, but I think there was some confusion on your part with friend which exacerbated the situation, which you need to acknowledge.

Not sure if I was your friend that I'd want to do your pick ups going forward.

HesterMacaulay · 16/09/2018 13:09

If it had been a genuine stranger (as in, a person the child didn’t actually know) surely to God the child would have spoken up?
The teacher very probably asked her to confirm the “stranger” was who she was claiming to be.
I'm really shocked at how little people seem to understand about safeguarding. Do you honestly believe that the only danger that children face are "stranger danger"?
The vast majority of children who suffer any form of abuse know who the person is. So the idea that asking a 4 year to identify the person as a way of ensuring their safety would be laughable if it weren't so dangerous.

Iamagreyhoundhearmeroar · 16/09/2018 13:50

I suppose. I just think the chances of one of these people bent on doing the child harm turning up at the school gates at the same time that the designated collecting person (in this case, the child’s own father) hasn’t is minimal.

And she’s going to be the person tasked with picking up next week, according to op.

HesterMacaulay · 16/09/2018 13:59

You are absolutely right Iamgrey - the chances are that it will be absolutely fine. BUT, safeguarding policies are there because there is always the possibility (however small) that it isn't fine.
I presume you put your seat belt on every time you get in a car? The vast majority of times you have no need of it. But you wear it because there is the possibility (however small) that one day you might need it. It might be an occasion where you are responsible for the accident - but you still hope the seat belt stops you getting thrown out of the car. Safeguarding procedures are exactly the same. They only work if they are in place all the time, because no one can predict when the occasion might arise when its not OK.

Stillnotready · 16/09/2018 14:00

It was not a risk my daughter was willing to take with reception children who had only been at the school a few weeks. She had never worked in a place that thought this was acceptable, and as others have pointed out, it is a safe guarding issue.
In her first job she had 3 ‘looked after’ children, so was probably more aware of the risks of person known to the child claiming it was ok for them to pick up their DC when in fact nothing could have been further from the truth, and course the child may naturally want to go to Mum or Dad rather than a foster carer.

Iamagreyhoundhearmeroar · 16/09/2018 14:03

You make a fair point, Hester

BuggerOffAndGoodDayToYou · 16/09/2018 14:47

*Hope none of these people outraged at dh's lateness are ever late for their child.

I find it hard to believe they won't be. Everyone is late sometimes.*

I think you’ll find that SOME people are late sometimes. I’ve managed to get two children right through school without ever getting them there late or being late to collect them. Where I work we have collection lists and we still have the same parents who will call us AFTER pick up time to say “x” is picking up my child today. One of us will then have to walk round the school telling teachers that “x” can pick up only to find that “x” is already haranguing the teacher because parent arranged this with them days ago but hadn’t bothered to tell the school until AFTER pick up time. I’ve even had a threat of calling the police on me as I refused to let a child go to someone saying they were collecting the child but without speaking to the parent I wasn’t letting the child go. We also have a lot of “my friend is picking up today” “can I take the name of your friend please so we know it’s the right person” “she’s just Aunty”. This is a cultural thing I realise as our Nigerian families all call each other Aunty but they seriously don’t know or refuse to give us names and we cannot release a child with such vague identification....which causes complaints.... talk about a rock and a hard place.....

HesterMacaulay · 16/09/2018 14:54

I know exactly what you are talking about BuggerOff - and it illustrates why school policy must be totally robust and no exceptions.

It doesn't stop the hassle and complaints to the staff at the door but there would be a riot if leeway was given in one case but not another!

Teej51 · 16/09/2018 17:28

As a primary school teacher...
I have had many run ins with people picking up who i am unaware of.
I would always take the child to the office and call their parents to double check any arrangements. Parents must inform us of any other person who may be picking up even if it is grandparents...unless these are regular.

Pixiegirl76 · 16/09/2018 17:30

Erm,well who was meant to pick her up?? And where were you????

TheCherries · 16/09/2018 17:37

It sounds to me as if this friend was really over insistent, the child knew the friend in question and with 30 other parents gesturing at the teacher to give them their child he/she was overwhelmed by it and agreed to it.

I would suggest you are mindful you are building a relationship with the school and the teacher for the next 7 years and it is a partnership.

I personally would not be looking to speak to the school as a complaint, instead I would suggest your husband, as the main carer and the one chosen to be present in the playground, look to approach to the teacher to apologise for any awkwardness the situation had put them through, that he would be looking to get to the school playground a few mins earlier in future to ensure he is always there for his reception aged child to provide them with assurance you are there, and on behalf of the friend he would like to apologise for putting the teacher in a very difficult situation that at the beginning of each week he will be providing the teacher with a list of who will be collecting your child to enable everyone to be clear.

eveamber · 16/09/2018 17:50

("Our friend had to be forceful with the teacher, convincing her she was correct to be taking her".)
I don't think the teacher was to blame given what you put about your friends insistence.

Rockandrollwithit · 16/09/2018 17:59

I'm a teacher and this is potentially very serious. You need to report it to the safeguarding lead at the school - normally the head or deputy, you can find out who it is on the school's website.

In this case no harm was done but if this had been a looked after child or one not allowed contact with certain relatives, it could have been a disaster. The school will want to review its policies.

caffelatte100 · 16/09/2018 17:59

I agree with TheCherries.

I don't live in the UK and I have to admit that I know little about collection of children and safe guarding issues from a primary school these days.
But I'm totally astounded at reading about all these policies and reactions here!

Your daughter could speak up if she didn't know the person couldn't she? She went with someone she knew and she was happy and safe.

TBH I can hardly see the problem and all this debate and upset. Please don't flame me here, I really don't!

Just as a contrast, (and it's a great extreme, I am not for one moment saying I agree with this) but where I live in central Europe, children from age four walk to and from school completely independently after they are trained for a a few weeks by the policemen, teachers and parents.
I didn't really feel comfortable with this and my daughter was about 6 years when she did so and she was absolutely fine - she walked about 800 metres there, came back for lunch and a return trip for the afternoon.