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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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To the two ladies at Dingwall Road bus stop in Croydon at 16.15pm today ...

315 replies

ArbitersCarbiters · 14/09/2018 16:53

It is never acceptable for you (without permission) to reach out and touch a black woman’s hair.

How would you feel if a complete stranger came up to you on the street, complimented your hair cut and then immediately reached out their hands to run it through your hair?

You crossed an unacceptable boundary in doing so.

In case you were still wondering:
(A) One of you being 72 years of age is not an excuse.
(B) You thinking it is beautiful and that your actions were meant as a compliment is not an excuse.
(C) The owner of said hair smiling and laughing it off is not an excuse.*

*This is most important because as soon as she got on that bus i.e. away from your inappropriate wandering hands, she expressed that she was exhausted after a long day at work, froze when you did what you did and didn’t have the wherewithal or energy to tell you how unacceptable it was for fear of hurting your feelings and/or being labelled as aggressive/overreacting. I know this feeling well as I have very often experienced and felt the same thing (so has she in the past, in case you were wondering). This is why I spoke for her. This is why I told you it was not an acceptable thing to act so intimately with a person you had never met. This is why I told you that she had said nothing to you for fear that she would cause you offence. In doing so, I was speaking for the many of us who have to put up with this shit everyday.

I imagine you will go home and talk about the angry busybody black woman who had the temerity to question your right to touch another woman’s hair. Let it be known that I spoke to you politely, with a smile and no discernible anger in my voice. But trust me when I tell you that I was angry. Remember this the next time you feel like complimenting someone in such a demeaning, inappropriate way. We are not pets whose fur you can ruffle at will. We are not children. We are women, just like you, who hold the right to go about our daily business without fear of being touched intimately by a stranger.

AIBU?

OP posts:
Aeroflotgirl · 14/09/2018 17:37

Presumably, op does not know the woman, and she interfered without knowing whether the woman wanted or not.

Member869894 · 14/09/2018 17:37

I've got red hair - well less red now as I'm in my fifties but all my life strangers have come up and touched my hair and complemented it, always in a kindly way. It really has never bothered me to the extent that I get angry about it; more inconvenienced than anything. For that reason I think YAB(a bit) U.

NotTheFordType · 14/09/2018 17:38

Oh god, the whitesplaining.

OP you did the right thing supporting that stranger. KOKO.

Redglitter · 14/09/2018 17:38

Not sure why its on MN unless you know they are MN members

I wonder if anyone has ever seen a thread like this - directed to some random but specific person - and thought shit that's me. 🤔

I'd put my money on it having happened - probably never

CrackpotsArePots · 14/09/2018 17:38

I'd step in to defend another woman if someone touched her on the arse. Presumably men get touched on the arse occasionally, but I'd make it into a feminist issue because it happens to women more often, and I'm a woman

MeAgainSparkle · 14/09/2018 17:38

I’m not denying it is bad manners but honestly it’s really bad manners of the OP to speak up for random people she doesn’t know and then share it on the internet. Not to mention totally ridiculous

Fairyliz · 14/09/2018 17:39

Crackpots without being goady how do you know black women get their hair touched more often? Its not something that's reported.

Surely its women with gorgeous hair who get it touched the most?

CrackpotsArePots · 14/09/2018 17:40

I think standing up for other people is admirable.

YeTalkShiteHen · 14/09/2018 17:40

Its not something that's reported

Reported where?

Because it is talked about, widely, by many black women. Mostly because they’re bloody sick of it.

fredleighton · 14/09/2018 17:40

I think you should mind your own business.

And it's got nothing to do with someone being black.

Librarybooksandacoconut · 14/09/2018 17:41

Those who are saying it’s nothing to do with race, do you honestly have other people of the same race coming up and touching your hair? I certainly don’t.

I’m white and the only time this is happened to me is when I’ve worked in rural communities in Africa where a white person is seen as some sort of semi-mythical creature and therefore my straight hair was fascinating. However the only people who did it were children for whom I was one of the very few white people they had ever met and it was done in a very innocent way. Funnily enough the adults managed to control themselves.

If you live in Croydon there is absolutely no excuse.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 14/09/2018 17:41

Crackpots I wondered if that were the case. As PP said, it's possibly because it's a different texture/interesting. Absolutely no excuse for touching it though.

I'm not black, I had ringlets as a child, proper Shirley Temple ones, and I can't tell you how distressed I was at the number of people sticking their fingers 'up the ringlet' - and thought they had a right to do it.

My hair's flat now and I keep it that way. Just thinking of people's hands on it makes me shudder and I feel sorry for any person who has to endure that. It's not complimentary, it's just so intrusive.

CrackpotsArePots · 14/09/2018 17:41

Fairyliz

Ask some black women.

Ask the OP

RosiesYellowDress · 14/09/2018 17:41

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Fiintastic · 14/09/2018 17:41

what about a white persons hair?

yabu = your whats wrong with society today. smh

Areyoufree · 14/09/2018 17:41

Just because you don’t get it, doesn’t make it fake.

Absolutely. I never understand why people feel the need to argue with people's experiences. I'm not black, so this isn't something that I have personally experienced, so if a black woman states that this is something people do regularly and that she finds it invasive and offensive, why wouldn't I just accept her at her word? What gives me the right to say that I know better? It's very odd.

SleepFreeZone · 14/09/2018 17:42

I think I may have done this with an acquaintance not that long ago as she has the most beautiful ringlets and I hadn’t seen her hair down before. Her body language told me I’d overstepped a boundary and I’ve made sure ever since to not talk about her hair again. It is bloody stunning though, it’s hard!!!

NoFuckingRoomOnMyBroom · 14/09/2018 17:42

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SoupDragon · 14/09/2018 17:42

but honestly it’s really bad manners of the OP to speak up for random people she doesn’t know and then share it on the internet.

It really isn’t. Like I say, if one person thinks twice before doing it as a result of reading this , it’s a good job.

weebarra · 14/09/2018 17:42

I think it is to do with race, or at the very least, "othering", so people seen as different are often more touched or commented upon.
I'm white, but I'm very very short - 4' 10, and I constantly get people asking how tall I am or even patting me on the head. DS2 is ginger, he gets touched all the time.

Wispaismyfave · 14/09/2018 17:43

I went to Thailand, I was in a small remote village in a shop and felt something on my hair, I turned around to find two Thai girls in their 20s just touching my hair. They said they'd never felt blonde hair before. I found it a bit weird to be honest but I wasn't offended at all, they complimented me and I carried on. I definitely didn't have a hissy fit or require anyone to step in to have words with them.

Beamur · 14/09/2018 17:43

It's not ok to touch someone like that. It's beyond rude.
I'd be very shocked if a random person did this to me. My DD has quite unusual hair and gets heartily sick of it being commented on, however well intentioned.

YeTalkShiteHen · 14/09/2018 17:43

What gives me the right to say that I know better?

Exactly!

Sadly, as usual, the whitesplainers are out in force on this thread. Because of course a white woman knows what it’s like to be a black woman.

Totally unprepared to actually listen to black women, explaining their own experiences.

Magair · 14/09/2018 17:44

Well done OP. Of course this is a race issue, as well as a sexist one.

You've ruined it a bit though with this post. Next time just say that you're proud of yourself for having a difficult conversation and calling out something important.

CrackpotsArePots · 14/09/2018 17:44

weebarra

I agree

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