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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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To the two ladies at Dingwall Road bus stop in Croydon at 16.15pm today ...

315 replies

ArbitersCarbiters · 14/09/2018 16:53

It is never acceptable for you (without permission) to reach out and touch a black woman’s hair.

How would you feel if a complete stranger came up to you on the street, complimented your hair cut and then immediately reached out their hands to run it through your hair?

You crossed an unacceptable boundary in doing so.

In case you were still wondering:
(A) One of you being 72 years of age is not an excuse.
(B) You thinking it is beautiful and that your actions were meant as a compliment is not an excuse.
(C) The owner of said hair smiling and laughing it off is not an excuse.*

*This is most important because as soon as she got on that bus i.e. away from your inappropriate wandering hands, she expressed that she was exhausted after a long day at work, froze when you did what you did and didn’t have the wherewithal or energy to tell you how unacceptable it was for fear of hurting your feelings and/or being labelled as aggressive/overreacting. I know this feeling well as I have very often experienced and felt the same thing (so has she in the past, in case you were wondering). This is why I spoke for her. This is why I told you it was not an acceptable thing to act so intimately with a person you had never met. This is why I told you that she had said nothing to you for fear that she would cause you offence. In doing so, I was speaking for the many of us who have to put up with this shit everyday.

I imagine you will go home and talk about the angry busybody black woman who had the temerity to question your right to touch another woman’s hair. Let it be known that I spoke to you politely, with a smile and no discernible anger in my voice. But trust me when I tell you that I was angry. Remember this the next time you feel like complimenting someone in such a demeaning, inappropriate way. We are not pets whose fur you can ruffle at will. We are not children. We are women, just like you, who hold the right to go about our daily business without fear of being touched intimately by a stranger.

AIBU?

OP posts:
RebeccaBunchLawyer · 14/09/2018 18:20

Teabag5, love, wtaf are you on about?

Teabag off,, babes!

RosiesYellowDress · 14/09/2018 18:20

@YeTalkShiteHen

If you find @tat because seemed to have given up the ‘fight of utter bollocks of nothing’ you can join forces

Btw fuckers what u bleating on about your cause made from a none issue you are calling yourself women which means you are offending some other fuckers with some label but are not a label

YeTalkShiteHen · 14/09/2018 18:20

er ALL white people HAVEN’T been defensive, thank you.

There’s a few of us at least who do understand and have been trying to explain white privilege. Some of us realise what it is, and want to change things.

YeTalkShiteHen · 14/09/2018 18:21

Btw fuckers what u bleating on about your cause made from a none issue you are calling yourself women which means you are offending some other fuckers with some label but are not a label

When you can string a coherent sentence together, I might try and respond. Until then....

Bloodybridget · 14/09/2018 18:21

Jesus wept. YANBU. Awful thing to do and completely unacceptable. I can't believe people are excusing it - yes it would also be completely out of order to do it to a white woman, or a man, or a child, but from a white person to a Black person is worse. Othering and exoticising.

Teabag5 · 14/09/2018 18:22

japchops are you trying to make me laugh???!!!

Hmm, let me think, what made me presume you were white.....? Your original post indicated it. And you've just confirmed it by THE FACT THAT YOU'VE TOTALLY MISUNDERSTOOD THE DEFINITION OF WHITE PRIVILEGE

Look it up.

Teabag5 · 14/09/2018 18:23

Japchops
please enlighten me to which part of my comments stated that white women are privileged?

Oh dear.

Poppyinagreenfield · 14/09/2018 18:23

I am not black. You can touch my hair. I don’t care.

What is wrong with you.

RebeccaBunchLawyer · 14/09/2018 18:24

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picklemepopcorn · 14/09/2018 18:24

I'm someone who has to sit on her hands and look elsewhere when I see great hair. I'd just love to touch it. Very occasionally i will ask- but only if it seems reasonable, I'd hate to think someone felt reluctant to say 'no'.

It doesn't only happen to black people, but is going to happen more to black people in a majority white area, because their hair is unusual.

I don't THINK it's a lack of respect for the person because they are black, but that is beside the point. Black people get mauled because their hair is unusual and that is not acceptable.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 14/09/2018 18:25

Crackpots, I'm glad but it was Teabag's post where she said '... it doesn't count to say someone touched your red curls or whatever'.

I posted my last post because I had posted about people touching my curls. That was in the 70's and it seemed the done thing to sit there and be quiet and not complain. I found that very hard but it was either take it, or be told off.

I have my own hang-ups about my hair but I do know what white privilege is and I think the fact that many white people don't know about it is because they're living it, not having to be cognisant of all the minute disadvantages of being black - and a woman.

StuntNun · 14/09/2018 18:25

Crikey, all the Beckys are out on Mumsnet today.

indianwoman · 14/09/2018 18:25

I can understand people not liking their hair being touched by a random, but i didn't know it was a thing that happened a lot to black people. In saying that, I have often wanted to comment on a black or mixed race child or woman's hair as it is often so beautiful and different from my own. When I see amazingly intricate tiny braids or lovely bouncy afros I often think wow, your hair looks amazing, but I don't say it because I am scared it would be offensive because I am not black.

I don't know why I think race comes into it but I do.

Does race come into it? Would you be offended if a white or non black person commented on your hair? As opposed to touching, I can see why an adult would not like that, or someone touching a child's hair.

prettypossums · 14/09/2018 18:25

Why is it only racism when black people are affected? I’ve been in Asia and the Middle East with my (blonde, blue eyed) dc and had to contend with grown men approaching and touching them.

It is EXACTLY the same

jaychops · 14/09/2018 18:25

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Helmetbymidnight · 14/09/2018 18:27

Teabag5, love, wtaf are you on about?
Teabag off,, babes

I’d stick to the tommy Robinson fan club, if I were you, you’re coming across as a complete twat here.

Teabag5 · 14/09/2018 18:27

RebeccaBunchLawyer
White privilege?! Not this old chestnut again, surely?! Yawn...

I do hope you are not actually a lawyer for the sake of anyone who becomes your client.

SinkGirl · 14/09/2018 18:29

Good for you OP.

My son was on a medication from birth that caused hirsutism - he had extremely huge hair from a few months old, as well as a hairy forehead (and arms, legs, bum etc). It got to the point I would dread taking him outside because people would comment and want to touch him, call him a werewolf (happened many, many times) etc

As soon as it started happening I thought back to the WOC who’ve told me about this happening their whole lives and how distressing and tiresome it must be. Fortunately it was a short lived issue for us, I can’t imagine having to deal with this so often by clueless idiots who see you as a novelty item. So upsetting

goldentriangle · 14/09/2018 18:30

I thought the same laiste, I listened to an identical story on 5 live this morning. This has been written to prompt that discussion it's not a real event that happened today .

Sellmyhouse · 14/09/2018 18:30

There was a thread on here the other day about how racist MN can be, and it’s so utterly true. So many people happy to come over here and dismiss or explain away the experiences of black women. People who claim that this isn’t a race issue are overlooking a major point: that this is very likely to be one of many events over the course of the day or week which make the OP feel uncomfortable or othered, an experience that most of don’t have to deal with. Just listen, ffs!

Teabag5 · 14/09/2018 18:30

prettypossoms
Why is it only racism when black people are affected? I’ve been in Asia and the Middle East with my (blonde, blue eyed) dc and had to contend with grown men approaching and touching them.It is EXACTLY the same

This.

Are you in Asia and the Middle East everyday of you life, were you born there and is this experience something you face each and every day? Or was it a funny little story that happened on holiday you can tell your friends about. NOT exactly the same is it.

Teabag5 · 14/09/2018 18:32

SellmyHouse

Yes!

SoupDragon · 14/09/2018 18:32

I’ve been in Asia and the Middle East with my (blonde, blue eyed) dc and had to contend with grown men approaching and touching them.

It is EXACTLY the same

Yes, because blue-eyed blondes have suffered generations of abuse and prejudice. 🙄

UnrelentingFruitScoffer · 14/09/2018 18:33

This is about personal boundaries. In England, when you are a stranger in the street it is absolutely not OK to touch someone else or their hair, even in a friendly way to admire them.

There are plenty of other cultures around the world where it is OK to do this. As usual, context is everything.

Fiintastic · 14/09/2018 18:34

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