To the two ladies at Dingwall Road bus stop in Croydon at 16.15pm today ...

[ArbitersCarbiters]

It is never acceptable for you (without permission) to reach out and touch a black woman’s hair.

How would you feel if a complete stranger came up to you on the street, complimented your hair cut and then immediately reached out their hands to run it through your hair?

You crossed an unacceptable boundary in doing so.

In case you were still wondering:
(A) One of you being 72 years of age is not an excuse.
(B) You thinking it is beautiful and that your actions were meant as a compliment is not an excuse.
(C) The owner of said hair smiling and laughing it off is not an excuse.*

*This is most important because as soon as she got on that bus i.e. away from your inappropriate wandering hands, she expressed that she was exhausted after a long day at work, froze when you did what you did and didn’t have the wherewithal or energy to tell you how unacceptable it was for fear of hurting your feelings and/or being labelled as aggressive/overreacting. I know this feeling well as I have very often experienced and felt the same thing (so has she in the past, in case you were wondering). This is why I spoke for her. This is why I told you it was not an acceptable thing to act so intimately with a person you had never met. This is why I told you that she had said nothing to you for fear that she would cause you offence. In doing so, I was speaking for the many of us who have to put up with this shit everyday.

I imagine you will go home and talk about the angry busybody black woman who had the temerity to question your right to touch another woman’s hair. Let it be known that I spoke to you politely, with a smile and no discernible anger in my voice. But trust me when I tell you that I was angry. Remember this the next time you feel like complimenting someone in such a demeaning, inappropriate way. We are not pets whose fur you can ruffle at will. We are not children. We are women, just like you, who hold the right to go about our daily business without fear of being touched intimately by a stranger.

AIBU?

Do people actually do this?!

I would never touch someone's hair unless I knew them... and asked permission first! It's massively invading privacy!!

Does this happen alot to black women? Does this happen alot to all women?

YANBU OP... eesh... I'm surprised you managed to be polite! Well done.

I think making petty things like this into bigger issue just belittles the bigger issues out there (employment issues, bullying in schools, criminal activity against certain races etc).

Some elderly lady touched someone’s hair and provided a positive comment. It’s hardly worth phoning the police over is it?

I do agree that we have some way to go in terms of fixing racial issues. But I think this sort of thing only serves to make people scared... so now you can’t say anything kind because it might be racist. Where does it end:

I like her hair and wonder what shampoo she uses but I had better not say anything because she might think it’s racist

I had better not give that job to the black person because he might think only gave it to him because he is not white.

We are crossing over into crazy times if we start guessing peoples intentions and second guessing how things will be received.

Hi again all,

We've been through the thread and removed posts that we felt broke talk guidelines. If we've missed anything, please let us know right away.

Oh FGS Twinning!

Well said, OP!!

A few weeks ago we were at a restaurant when an elderly white lady (as she and her husband were leaving) went out of her way to come to our table and run her hair through my 2yr old daughter’s afro whilst complimenting it. I simply smiled at her. Her husband smiled at me but was clearly uncomfortable. My DH firmly said “Thank you. She doesn’t like her hair being touched by strangers. None of us do. Do you have granddaughters? Do they like their hair being touched by strangers? Would you?”. Her husband apologised and then she chimed in with “I know better but I couldn’t help myself”, apologised and they left.

This wasn’t the first time either of my DC have had their hair touched by strangers. It was the first time it had happened whilst I was with DH. Turns out we have different approaches and he always tells people not to do it and why. I’ve simply smiled along, cussed them internally and moved on with my day. I figured I’d speak up when my DC were older, I think?? Which was a ridiculous plan but turns out I needed my DH to point that out to me.

Funnily enough I don’t remember how old I was when I started (occasionally) asking people to stop touching my hair. I particularly hate it when it’s done in work but I’m pretty certain I’ve never spoken up I cringe when I see other black people having their hair “touched” but have never felt brave enough to say anything. I haven’t been setting a good example for my DC.

Yanbu. My dd has blonde ringlets almost down to her waist. Her hair is stunning. She's 18 now and countless times over the years people have touched it or asked to. It doesnt bother her. It does annoy me though.

However YABU to bring race into it. This isnt a race issue. This is someone taking it upon themselves to touch someones hair because ìt's different to their own. Making it a race issue makes it something a lot more dramatic than it is.

@BabySharkAteMyHamster but it Is a race issue?
Would you like to read the 11pages of this thread and sift through the black women telling you that it isa race issue for black people??

Or a quick Google??

So it’s a race issue when it happens to black women, but not when it happens to redheads / curly haired white women.
Ok.

Half the threads deleted.... it should be deleted entirely now

Too many holes

Too much froth

Ffs. Does anyone want to look up racism?

Being admiring of and curious about a persons hair does not make you racist.

Even if, god forbid, you touch it.

Touching it may have invaded an individuals personal space but it does not make you racist.

No. It isnt.

It's a people taking it upon themselves to maul something because it's different to them.

My dd gets targetted by chinese people in particular because her hair is blonde. In certain areas theyve been known to squeal with excitement and shout their friends over. Is she being targetted because of her race ?? No.
Theyre attracted to it because it's different.

When we've holidayed abroad it's been a real issue in certain parts of the world. Still isnt a race issue though 🤷‍♀️

It's a touchy feely person issue.

YANBU. I have curly hair. My daughter has mixed hair, her dad is Zimbabwean, I am white Scottish. Guess whose hair people want to touch? It’s not mine, despite how curly mine is as well.

100 percent agree with tang

so now you can’t say anything kind because it might be racist. Where does it end:

Twinning, they touched her hair, they didn't just say something. Stop minimising, you sound extremely foolish.

Are kids in African villages being racist when they get all excited because theyve seen a white person for the first time ?? Or is it just confusion at seeing someone outside of the norm ??

I think making petty things like this into bigger issue just belittles the bigger issues out there

To YOU it's petty because it doesn't affect you. To you and others that think like you, black people should only challenge explicitly racially motivated discrimination and ignore the day to day incidents of racism/bias/fetishisation. This is nothing short of offensive.
To most black people, day to day micro aggressions are just as big an issue as what white people deem to be "bigger issues". But god forbid black people voice their experiences and actually be heard. Mustn't make people uncomfortable, musts expect people to have to question their own unconscious biases

I wonder sometimes if subconsciously some people think it acceptable to touch a black woman’s hair because the feel the are ‘above’ black people (the unconscious racist) and the black woman has lower rights to body autonomy than white women

I agree with every bit of this, except sometimes I don’t think it’s unconscious.

So it’s a race issue when it happens to black women, but not when it happens to redheads / curly haired white women.

Correct Greyhound that summarises it. Of course if a white woman in Japan had her hair touched by a Japanese woman without permission then it would be racist. But it isn't here in the UK.

I don’t think there’ll have been any element of fetishisation in the two old lady’s interest in a black woman’s hairstyle.

Definition of racism below. What happened here is not by definition racism. It isnt just because you feel like it may be subtly. It isnt. It really isnt.

Right, just googled “white fragility”, seriously, what?

Do people have this much time in their hands to go on and on about this rubbish?!

Bollocks, Stunt

The old women did not feel superior or her inferior. They were curious crossed boundaries but by the one example given not racist.

I'm genuinely horrified that there is anyone who thinks this is ok or it's harmless

I'm not a WOC so from my point of view if you wouldn't consider it polite to touch my hair why the actual fuck would it be okay to touch a woc hair

Not ok....bodily autonomy whoever you are is important

I am the furthest thing from militant and if this was a case of the permanently offended id be the first to take the Mick to be honest

But don't fucking touch anyone , don't make someone , anyone for any reason, feel like a side show

Age does not negate this
Claiming to be complimentary dies not negate this

You want to be complementary? Say you like someone's outfit

It's not hard ...dont be a dick