To the two ladies at Dingwall Road bus stop in Croydon at 16.15pm today ...

[ArbitersCarbiters]

It is never acceptable for you (without permission) to reach out and touch a black woman’s hair.

How would you feel if a complete stranger came up to you on the street, complimented your hair cut and then immediately reached out their hands to run it through your hair?

You crossed an unacceptable boundary in doing so.

In case you were still wondering:
(A) One of you being 72 years of age is not an excuse.
(B) You thinking it is beautiful and that your actions were meant as a compliment is not an excuse.
(C) The owner of said hair smiling and laughing it off is not an excuse.*

*This is most important because as soon as she got on that bus i.e. away from your inappropriate wandering hands, she expressed that she was exhausted after a long day at work, froze when you did what you did and didn’t have the wherewithal or energy to tell you how unacceptable it was for fear of hurting your feelings and/or being labelled as aggressive/overreacting. I know this feeling well as I have very often experienced and felt the same thing (so has she in the past, in case you were wondering). This is why I spoke for her. This is why I told you it was not an acceptable thing to act so intimately with a person you had never met. This is why I told you that she had said nothing to you for fear that she would cause you offence. In doing so, I was speaking for the many of us who have to put up with this shit everyday.

I imagine you will go home and talk about the angry busybody black woman who had the temerity to question your right to touch another woman’s hair. Let it be known that I spoke to you politely, with a smile and no discernible anger in my voice. But trust me when I tell you that I was angry. Remember this the next time you feel like complimenting someone in such a demeaning, inappropriate way. We are not pets whose fur you can ruffle at will. We are not children. We are women, just like you, who hold the right to go about our daily business without fear of being touched intimately by a stranger.

AIBU?

As a ginger, who had her hair touched endlessly as a child, and now aged 51 hates the hairdressers, YANBU!

My DD has the most beautiful red hair, people have always tried to touch it, I know to compliment it, but I don't care! I always stop them, telling them she does not like people she does not know touching her! Who the hell does?

I’m guessing there’s a pair of old ladies feeling a hell of a lot shittier tonight than the woman who had her hair touched.
Op had a fucking nerve to charge in like the calvery; nobody has ever “rescued” me like that (nor did I need to be rescued).
So yes, she made it about race. On someone else’s behalf.

Op had a fucking nerve to charge in like the calvery;

Hardly charging... Let it be known that I spoke to you politely, with a smile and no discernible anger in my voice

Regardless of the situation I would be very pissed off that a stranger had seen it her job to speak up on my behalf. That's almost as bad as having the hair touched in the first place. Very patronising.

Touching a person of colour's hair without permission is a microaggression. If you are a white person who believes that touching a black woman's hair isn't a racist act then you are being ignorant. Stop minimising and get over your white fragility.

Yertalkingshite...

I haven't been offensive though, have I?

I had an opinion that differed from yours and you started the insults .

Denial of racism is about the most offensive thing I can think of.

And if you’re more offensive, or deliberately goady online when you wouldn’t in real life, that’s the definition of a shitebag.

Not an insult. A statement of fact.

Touching ANYONE's hair is unacceptable. In fact touching ANYONE without permission is not on. I do not understand why people touch pregnant women's bumps, how inept must you be!

I was in a cafe recently and a few tables away there was a family with a daughter around 10with the most amazing vibrant red curly hair. A waitress, who took their order, was stroking it. The family and the child did not seem to mind but I thought it was an odd and disrespectful thing to do.

I think that some people do not have boundaries so if you fall into their path and you have what they perceive to be beautiful or different hair, they see no problem in touching it without any thought that the owner of the hair will be offended. It is not a race issue but because it may often happen to OP or other black people she knows, she has perceived it to be about race. It’s about boundaries and knowing what is acceptable to do in a public space with strangers (and anybody else who might find it discomforting).

I see people with lovely hair all the time. I never feel the need to touch it, even people I know well. Just would not occur to me.

But she spoke on someone else’s behalf, without their consent or request, Soup
She assumed insult on a complete stranger’s behalf, without a notion whether the person wanted or needed the old ladies to be admonished like that.
I’d have felt insulted by her, actually.

Flintastic
White privilege is a myth Prove me wrong / change my mind

Why don't you educate yourself? Like I said, you could start by reading Reni Eddo Lodge. I bet you won't though.

ADastardlyThing the point about white privilege and also structural racism is that is often isn't "'intentional" as you say i.e. from the perspective of the two women at the bus stop. Some people are violent racists, but many many more are unconsciously biased or different in their behaviour and attitudes towards black people. It is ingrained in UK / "Western" culture and systems and the only way to defeat it is to become aware and acknowledge it exists. And accept black women's own experiences as reality.

Teabag don't patronise me. You have no idea what colour I am.

I didn't say racism didn't exist. I said white privilege doesn't ...

And that, right there, is the absolute definition of irony.

You can’t even see it can you? Good grief.

Red curly hair here. People try and touch it all the time. I do not like it!

Being able to deny the racial undertone in another persons experience simply because it doesn't resonate with anything you've ever experienced before, is the very definition of white privilege.

I'd like to say this thread has been I believe to read but actually it's been pretty predictable.

Indeed there are.

Being able to deny the racial undertone in another persons experience simply because it doesn't resonate with anything you've ever experienced before, is the very definition of white privilege

It is indeed.

Sad that racism has become the new “thing” on MN. For the life of me I’ve no idea how it’s been allowed to stand, the last few weeks have been awful.

Yes, it is a race issue.

We really cannot live harmoniously and happily together if we refuse to listen to each other or accept each other’s experiences.

When the traditionally oppressed group is telling the traditionally dominant group that something is offensive to them, it would serve everybody well to listen and be the change

Peace and love 😉

We really cannot live harmoniously and happily together if we refuse to listen to each other or accept each other’s experiences.

This

Agreed @YeTalkShiteHen and it makes me question where the line is for MNHQ

Several redheads have declared it’s not necessarily about race, Cognitive. Because we experience it too.
Where’s the racism in that?

When the traditionally oppressed group is telling the traditionally dominant group that something is offensive to them, it would serve everybody well to listen and be the change

Also this. “Be the change” yes!

I have mixed race children one of which is a little girl with long curly Afro hair I can never seem to let her just have it down anymore if we are going out as the amount of people who just take it upon themselves to touch it is unbelieveable I hate it & definitely have made it known to them not to do it... Why can't people just compliment someone's hair without bloody touching it ... So for the people out there both young & old who feel the need to touch somebody's hair please keep your hands to yourselves compliment it if you wish but do NOT touch it it's not acceptable !!